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@(f)politics? wrote:
It’s not just race as I said it applies to disability gender age and so on but race issues do crop up more as a rule like this piece from the paper but yes it’s something I feel strongly about on many fronts.
And not just race I have a soap box for each one too lol xMaybe I’ve missed the others, in which case I apologise.
Where I disagree, is that if you are bullied because of a characteristic you can’t or shouldn’t have to change, why shouldn’t you say so? If it’s unfair – which bulllying is, why shouldn’t you say so?
Most of the freedoms you value were restricted until people got on their high horses (or in front of racehorses etc) and prompted action from the people who could change it.
Discrimination is not the fault of the victim, but of the discriminator. If you want to stop the whingeing, stop the discriminator.
If the discrimination is historical, then anyone has a right to talk about it, and if it was horrible, why shouldn’t they be horrified?
In the end we are complex creatures the products of a complex interplay between biology and sociology, we learn more by listening to each other than by shutting each others down.
@panda12 wrote:
Some ppl are genuinely victims though. Where do you draw the line about someone being a genuine victim and someone crying wolf?
Who decides where that line is drawn?
The wolf
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I reserve the right to whinge and moan about people whingeing and moaning . . . . :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
F_pol, I don’t think you’ve missed the point, but I do think in this particular thread you’ve turned minor references into major ones.
The journalist was placing some relevant personal experience into the mix – something you and I have done occasionally. He was warning about one aspect of media bias and using actual examples. As recent events have shown, we all need to be more vigilant about media bias, its reasons and its consequences.
If you didn’t see the comments around the Rochdale case from journalists, politicians and other public figures (and if I recall, within these boards) specifically associating with the muslim community the grooming of young white girls for the sex trade, then you wouldn’t really get the necessity for an article such as that. But I can assure you such comments were made, loudly, publicly and frequently and not just by fringe extremists either.
As for dealing with racism as and when it happens to you as an individual, that is something people have to do, and some have to decide which battles are worth taking up or they’d be fighting all the time.
Irish Lucy, I don’t think slavery was mentioned much in the article, or in any of the comments here prior to yours. There are some fundamental differences between the operation of the traditional African slave trade and the way the slave trade was operated by Europeans between Africa and the Americas. It doesn’t make it OK and I won’t go into them: the greatest research tool ever is only a button away from anyone who really wants to know.
But referring to something when relevant isn’t necessarily ‘going on about it’. In a parallel universe without the slave trade I and many others would have a very different names, identity and probably location. So if I can’t refer to the slave trade that would be as great a loss as if I couldn’t refer to Trafalgar Square, Nelson’s Column, Sir Francis Drake or anything else that refers back beyond 1830. Talking about it doesn’t make me or my relevant ancestors more or less victims, heroes or survivors than anyone else, but let’s not censor history.
As to us all being the same, yes, all human, all with the same rights and responsibilities. But we receive different treatment and have to negotiate our own responses. My approval or yours is irrelevant, even if it falls outside our individual comfort zones.
“If you wanted to be treated as equal then your colour shouldn’t matter – just get on with things, if you keep bringing up your colour etc noone will see past it.” As you said, there’s a lot of sense in that. Unfortunately in JC as in life, it’s often not the person themselves that makes colour, religion or disability an issue, but someone else – what do you do then? Even if no one else does, if you can choose to keep your gender on the agenda, can’t someone else choose which aspect of their identity they should make known?
F_pol, My inner psychotherapist would love to find out why race more than (I think) any other seems to get your fingers tapping. And I don’t quite understand why you started another thread to talk about victim mentality, when you want people to stop going on about it. But I’m not going to say you shouldn’t or wish you didn’t because if it matters to you, and it doesn’t cause unnecessary hurt or offence, then why shouldn’t you ‘go on about’ anything that matters to you?
I don’t believe you have missed the point, I don’t agree with many of your conclusions, but then if we agreed on everything, that would be taking ‘being the same’ a bit too far wouldn’t it?
Live Long and Prosper!
@rogue trader wrote:
im in america now, thats what im trying to tell you :evil:
Do they have Google Maps in America?
Scep, they’ve still have more Dunblane-type incidents in the US than here.
Of course someone shouldn’t be allowed to round up children or adults for slaughter. But could they have been stopped by a gun-toting teacher or caretaker? No, Dunblane was peaceful before the incident and has remained peaceful after, even if teachers owned guns they would probably not have them in the school. Even if they did, they’d have to be able to shoot first and shoot accurately in a room full of children while under critical stress.
Dunblane etc. are still exceptional incidents. I live not far from one of London’s more infamous ‘murder miles’ but shootings are exceptional even there and most of the time it is an everyday shopping street where the only exceptional things about it is that all of the shop units are in use, run by small independent businesses, many until quite late at night.
Exceptional cases need exceptional measures, they should not dictate the everyday. (Hard Cases Make Bad Law – an established legal truism)
Highly trained police officers have hit the wrong target or killed innocent people they by mistake. In the US accidental shootings of gun owners and their family members are tragically high. Let’s remain as we are, with our delicate balance of personal freedom, safety, law and order.
My thoughts are with you both, A speedy recovery and future health to you and snugggz
If you land at the other end of Route 66 reverse the instructions . . . . .
@sceptical guy wrote:
I would quite like a gun…
Moss Side doesn’t seem to bother anbout what the law says about guns….
the real world is a world of guns…
Protection of life has to come first..and in a world wehre quite a few peeps have guns (legally and not) and are willing to use them…well, telling them it’s illegal isn’t going to do one thing or another
Shouldn’t this be in the generalisations thread?
Shootings in this country – including Moss Side – are still rare compared to high gun crime areas in the US states and our civil disorders don’t compare to Countries like Syria or Egypt.
We would also need a very different kind of policing with huge implications for non gun-related issues. (Just look at how we’ve already been affected by security issues)
If we relaxed our gun laws, then the gun salespeople would be marketing guns into our neighbourhoods and shady political and criminal groups would help in the social destabilisation. Unlike the drugs problems in wealthy areas (you sell stuff to people with money!!) gun problems amongst the wealthy would not remain behind closed doors and rehab would be too late.
Even if you think we’ve got it bad now, this is a genie that doesn’t go back into the bottle, the risks are too great.
This country is too small to pretend that the crime would happen “over there” and “we” would just be able to protect ourselves, or that the person who is conveniently willing to use a gun will be skilful and lucky enough to miss our bol locks for us.
@panda12 wrote:
@momentaryloss wrote:
@panda12 wrote:
@momentaryloss wrote:
Looking forward to sampling the transport problems, sorry atmosphere, when I go to London for the first weekend – whatever made me think that was a good idea?
:?
I’ll make a note to look for a penguin wandering lost around London.
Bet that will surprise a few ppl huh?
Seeing a penguin walking around London.
*chuckles
Don’t tell anyone – I’m not really a penguin – I’m a badger.
Sssshhhhhhhh!
*chuckles @ thought of a badger walking around London.
You can call in at mine for tea. Bring plenty of cakes and biscuits etc.
Oooh! Tea’n’Cakes? C’n I come too?
