[Wordsworth60]

@kent f OBE wrote:

@terry wrote:

@kent f OBE wrote:

A 15 yr old girl reported the gang in 2008 but the Crown Prosection took no action. Investigations only began in 2010.

Reports in the newspapers are saying the police were “petrified” of being branded as racists. My message to the police and the CPS involved in this case is simple: resign.

Well I hope there is an enquiry..I know the police have it tough….we live in a world now where PCness has gone mad…but if the police stopped investigating somthing like this because of a being labelled racist it’s horrifying….I wonder how it would have been investigated had it been a white gang who abused asian kids?…I think the police wouldve acted sooner so not to be labelled racist………seems the police are held by their goolies ……very wrongly

I agree Terry. It was reported in the newspapers, but I wonder if the fear of being branded racist was the problem. People of colour are still dealt with at a disproportionately high level in the criminal justice system. Perhaps those crimes are easier and cheaper to investigate.

Unless the CPS sanction a prosecution and just as importantly resources are forthcoming, not much can be done pro-actively by the police.

There are sex rings involving white people which remain undetected and un-investigated, it’s not a recent at all – the notorious cases involving care homes and church-based organisations pre-date notions of “PC” by decades and more and share the same problems as this case.

The reasons are many, Cath mentioned some; also children have to muster the courage to approach someone in authority, they might not have the vocabulary for it, failure to believe victims and witnesses, difficulty in getting evidence that will hold up in court, the social standing and resourcefulness of the people involved. Failure to take even scandalous sex crimes seriously (the low conviction rate in adult rape cases is a related example).

I’m not saying that no police officer fears being branded as racist, but I seriously wonder how representative they are of the system as a whole and how many of the problems are in fact generic for this type of crime.

OK back to work . . . .

[Wordsworth60]

2 of our fundamental problems in this country are the high price of land, coupled with the high price of property which prevents many people from acquiring suitable living space; and lack of engagement in the political process. Few people know how laws are passed or how the various sections of our Constitution function.

So our politics revolve around short term vote-winners rather than thorough solutions to our problems, which are often introduced by the back door.

We do need a national vision that is relevant to world in the 21st century. Globalised market economics means that repatriating foreigners locally is not a realistic option. Other problems arise – remember the media complaints about how much British plumbers were earning before enough Eastern European workers came in to compete at lower prices?

Of course if manufacturers can’t find enough cheap labour to manufacture in this country they will simply manufacture things abroad.

Anyway I’ve got to stay away from JC for a couple of days in order to focus on business.

Good luck everyone.

Party on!

8) :lol: 8) :lol: 8) :lol: 8) :lol: 8) :lol: 8) :lol:

[Wordsworth60]

@sceptical guy wrote:

words and panda . . . may i ask whether and why you think immigration is a racist issue? . . . . . . . . is the discussion of immigration in our politics relevant, and is it racist?

Sceptical, here’s my answer. Please remember I prefer A roads to motorways and like the occasional detour. Any less constructive responses to this answer from third parties are not my responsibility.

First I will say that racism is not the only unfairness in society and is no ‘worse’ or ‘better’ than sexism, ageism, disability discrimination or any other bigotry.

In recent years “racism” has become an emotive word, more offensive to some than almost any other accusation, even when bias is clear. Openly racist public figures know this and use the subject as a cloak for their lust for power. They have used Immigration as a rallying call for decades; blaming immigrants for the country’s ills, but excluding those immigrants they assume are white and of UK ancestry.

I won’t speak for Panda but I saw meaning in the reference to immigration when others seemed not to because I have been on the receiving of the destructive fallout from the misuse of this subject before and there were resonances with prior experience.

One problem in discussing racism is achieving a common understanding of the subject.

Discussing immigration is, in itself, not “racist” (definition: regarding one racial group as superior or inferior to another). But “Race” itself is a contentious concept. In law it can include biologically inherited group factors, colour, national origin (geographical loyalty) or ethnic origin (group loyalty) and nationality, including citizenship. Unfortunately it lends itself to drawing neat and rigid lines through populations, which rarely works well.

Racism, like any form of unfairness, can be overt or covert, intentional or unintentional, individual or institutional (cultural). Unfortunately where someone with any kind of power or influence uses it in a racist way, the attitude or actions of the target can be of limited protection.

So how can discussing immigration become racist if the subject itself is not racist?
One way is by falsely selecting one or more racial group as a problem. False selection, poor use of figures, sweeping conclusions and insults cloud authentic problems.

Immigration is about people. Therefore discussing immigration is relevant to UK politics. Discussing it in a racist manner however, is not.

[Wordsworth60]

@eve wrote:

The question of grammar aside, I have to put in my 101 the non pronunciation of the th. How hard is it to pronounce th?? Fink? fort? etc. :twisted:

Sorry darlin’ rahnd our way vat’s the way cleverdicks talk . . .

[Wordsworth60]

It’s just not fair! I decide I’m going to throw a decent strop after months of trying to be the soul of reason. I drop my little girl off at salsa, drop into a jam session and by the time I get back Terry is playing tennis with Panda and only arguing about the score, everyone’s agreeing we should stick to the subject and even Pepper is acknowledging he might have caused offence and apologising ffs!

Dammit!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Wordsworth60]

@terry wrote:

Wordsworth – think about that taxi driver analogy I put to you a while back. Imagine getting behind that wheel and the passengers who are in the back. And then imagine a journey from London to Manchester without your usual stop-off at Edinburgh on the way. #-o

Terry diddums, next time you get a chance to take in some scenery, try it, there might be beauty there which will soften your caustic soul

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Wordsworth60]

For those how feel disappointed that I have stooped to a low level, please realise I am in fact, a human being.

The replies I have put in this page so far have been dismissed, abused (a new level of stupid? Purr-lease!) and ignored in the quest to label Panda as playing the race card and anyone who disagrees as being part of some larger conspiracy against freedom of speech (am I wrong in thinking we even had liberal elites brought into this? Elite???? If only I’d known!!!!!).

I always thought the race card was supposed to get you out of trouble and intimidate anyone who was supposed to try to give you your just desserts. If Panda has played the race card then she’s the worst race card player I have ever seen! And I have seen the least artful at work, believe me!

The dwelling on ‘subliminal’ points she is supposed to have made juxtaposes oddly with the subsequent insistence on explicit and concise explanations.

If this is too obscure, I’m repeating my view that I do not think she is playing the race card or the racist card, but expressing a sincerely held point of view).

I decided during the last bout of forensic unpleasantness that I was fed up with the whole shebang, would respect both Pepper’s and Terry’s verdicts on my attempts, and in the near-absence of any comments to the contrary, stop treating their posts seriously.

I had done my very best to think through what I had to say, edit it so that it would be clearer and to make my point. If as a result of thinking things my perspective changed, I don’t think that’s a bad thing, unless I really did know everything there was to know to begin with. My efforts were plainly inadequate and I had nothing more to say.

So I gave up. Thankfully my trivial contributions appear to be much less controversial and I assume, easier to understand, so I feel encouraged that I made the right choice and will continue to reflect scant seriousness in any replies to Terry or Pepper. Unfortunately the focus seems to be even more acutely on Panda, even though I think she said significantly less than me and remained more pertinent.

However I will give Sceptical’s question some thought and reply constructively later.

[Wordsworth60]

So Panda, is grammar a bugbear for you?

8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

[Wordsworth60]

@panda12 wrote:

@terry wrote:

@wordsworth60 wrote:

To be fair Panda, a lot of people don’t understand racism, either as a word that could be defined (regarding one race as superior or inferior to another) or recognising it when it occurs.

Never mind the word “racism” Wordsworth; how about the word “stupidity” which you seem, singlehandedly, to have given a whole new meaning to.

:roll:

Tut! Grammar Terry! Surely you shouldn’t be ending a sentence with the word “to?” :shock:

Surely your sentence should have read:

Never mind the word “racism” Wordsworth; how about the word “stupidity” to which you singlehandedly, seem to have given a whole new meaning.

Indeedadippedydodo! Blibble!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Wordsworth60]

@terry wrote:

@wordsworth60 wrote:

To be fair Panda, a lot of people don’t understand racism, either as a word that could be defined (regarding one race as superior or inferior to another) or recognising it when it occurs.

Never mind the word “racism” Wordsworth; how about the word “stupidity” which you seem, singlehandedly, to have given a whole new meaning to.

:roll:

I have? Oh the Power!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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