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One very serious point has been made =- by Ms M, on the Treaty of Lisbon – and to deal with this I’m ignoring the abuse of our charlatan professor as long as nothing serious is said by him – and it so rarely is said.
You totally ignored “Ms M” rudely when she repeatedly and politely asked you to answer her question, I guess “Ms M” is now back in favour with you, now that it suits you and you only.
Predictable.
Sloth.
I can’t be arsed waiting for ‘LOOK AT ME’ to compose another hysterical tirade. :)
In one breathe dopey bollocks violently argues that the mighty EU saves us from ‘Thatcherism’ and the worst excesses of neoliberalism and the nasty tories and the nasty ‘right wing’.
Then evidence is presented, that dopey bollocks agrees with word for word, that in fact the opposite has happened and that the mighty EU has in fact adopted Thatcherism monetary policy, is going further than Thatcher ever dreamt off (TTIP CETA etc) and that EU enforced austerity has consigned millions of young Europeans to the scrap heap, just like Thatcher did and just like Thatcher did the mighty EU is also busy eroding and dismantling workers rights.
Job done i’d say.
Right, let me set it out as clearly as I can.
You stated on p. 1 of this thread that” 60 per cent of regulations originate from the EU and the 28-member Commission in Brussels — none of whom were elected”.
This was in keeping with the Leave campaign’s demands to get rid of EU regulations which were hampering us by foreign rule.
In response, i argued that health, hygiene, safety, trade union organisation, the environment are part of the EU’s fabric as a rules-based order – there are so many rules because 28 countries had to have standardised rules on these things.
If there are rules protecting animal welfare in force in the UK, there must be the same rules in Romania, Hungary, France etc. Otherwise, if cruelty to animals or dirty food takes place in one country, then the free movement of goods throughout the EU will break down – dirty but low-cost food from one country will flood out the more hygienic but higher-cost food in another. They have to be standardised. They have to be enforced on all nations.
These standards are organised by the European Civil Service, which is no more elected than our Civil Service is elected.
The free market economists who dominated much of the Leave campaign see this as bureaucratic and believe that if all restrictions on trade are removed – health, animal welfare, labour unions – then Britain will move into the sun-lit seas of prosperity.
That means that a rules-based order is replaced by a risk-based order, in which food and labour union standards of the Philippines and Albania and the USA (eg chlorinated chicken is the famous case) will trade without the strict rules which hold in the EU. The economic case for Brexit old boy is not that there would be large economic gains, it is that there would not be prohibitive economic costs that make it unfeasible to secure the large geopolitical gains we can make by leaving.
That means a hard border in Northern Ireland, with all that implies in violence and the breaking of an international treaty. Ireland, in the EU, won’t allow- such goods into the EU because of the EU rules.
If you disagree, then please state why.
If not, then accept that your statement about EU regulations is not relevant.
Why do all nations have to have generic laws applied to them ? You state that “free movement of goods will break down” if certain laws involving “animal rights” aren’t applied in a standardised fashion but as we are apparently leaving the EU, freedom of movement for both goods and people will be rendered a moot point anyway so your argument doesn’t make any sense. People leaving the EU have no wish to see ” free movement” and the laws entailed to keeping this practical, so your entire argument comes from a stance of accepting free movement is a necessity in Europe which I don’t accept.
The Uk parliamentary system is broken particularly the ridiculous “first past the post system” but ultimately all laws are passed through the houses of parliament and the house of Commons which is elected so perhaps you can provide links to civil servants in the UK who are not elected passing UK laws?
You still haven’t responded to how the EU contributes in a positive way to huge soaring population figures due to uncontrolled immigration of unskilled workers or not workers at all merely claiming benefits, Your ridiculous argument of “most EU immigrants being skilled workers” because your brother once knew a polish plumber was shown to be complete bollocks with the statistics I showed you.
You still haven’t responded to how being in the EU helps with soaring housing costs due to a huge influx of immigrants pushing demand up for shelter meaning longer waiting lists not just for housing but all public services which are stretched to breaking point.
You have been unable to answer how remaining in the EU helps with wages for workers when thousands and thousands of unskilled immigrants arrive prepared to work for metaphorical peanuts meaning the jobs go to people coming here from other countries rather than natives.
You’ve failed pathetically to respond to how remaining in the EU which limits Britain’s international influence, ruling out an independent seat at the World Trade Organisation (WTO) can be a good thing.
You’ve so far been unable to answer why remaining in this wretched organisation is beneficial as it keeps Britain from fully capitalising on trade with other major economies like Japan, India and the UAE.
Your pathetic EU defence has so far been unable to state why the average person in Britain loses hundreds of pounds each year due to EU VAT contributions and agricultural subsidies policies and how that can be contrived to be remotely a good idea.
Your argument so far seems to be ” Anyone leaving the EU is a right wing racist and a dirty pigs head may pass through unregulated borders should we leave.
We’re all waiting , instead of quoting right wing rhetoric perhaps you would care to enlighten us?
1 member liked this post.
Still no response then from Mrs S? I’ll look forward to a reply appearing some time next year liked by Mrs M and the goon squad talking about my “nazi” views, apparent racism and links to an obscure politician from google who may or may not be right wing to deflect attention away from being unable to answer a single point raised.
I’ll answer that clown Gerry when I deal with Ms Mooosey’s point about the Treaty of Lisbon. Her point is actually much the same, but it’s couched as a rational (and good) arguent argument against the EU rather than in childish playground terms by a fantasist, and it deals with the same grounds.
Master Rude Boy, I think your arguments are bad and pander to fear
BUT
I’m trying to focus on one argument at a time. I just think things will be clearer that way.
Why do all nations have to have generic laws applied to them ? You state that “free movement of goods will break down” if certain laws involving “animal rights” aren’t applied in a standardised fashion but as we are apparently leaving the EU, freedom of movement for both goods and people will be rendered a moot point anyway so your argument doesn’t make any sense. People leaving the EU have no wish to see ” free movement” and the laws entailed to keeping this practical, so your entire argument comes from a stance of accepting free movement is a necessity in Europe which I don’t accept.
have you grasped the argument properly?
I’m not sure how this applies to my point about a rules-based order requiring standardised regulations (the EU) and engaging in risk-based trade with countries which don’t have the same high standards as the EU.
Are you capable enough to focus on one argument??
We don’t need “standardised regulations ” as we won’t be part of the EU and if you are saying standards in the USA and Japan for eg are lower than EU countries like Greece and Romania you’re clearly as thick as pigshit.
I’ve outlined the main reasons why people including me voted to leave the EU and you haven’t managed to answer a single one of them. You go back to answering Mrs Moosey lol ,she’s more on your level
Rude, my questions were posed 5 days ago, 8 pages ago so he’s hardly in a rush… where I posted this , although politically things have changed slightly in the last 5 days I realise….
Why are we not surprised that the EU have bullied us into a no win position ? After all they have form for it ?
Any country that has voted no has been forced to have a 2nd referendum, despite The EU proclaiming Democracy would be paramount and results would stand , they promise all kinds of opt-outs and basically sell a lie , get the result they want in the 2nd referendum then conveniently renege on any promises or force through new legislation or a new treaty which makes all other deals , promises or treaty’s null and void.
When France voted NO to the ”Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe” with 55% followed by the Netherlands with a resounding 61% NO majority , referendums were swiftly cancelled in Poland, Portugal, Ireland, The UK and Denmark . The EU promised AGAIN to respect the results… However then The Lisbon Treaty replaced the Constitution for Europe Treaty, practically Identical in every way , this was pushed through French and Dutch parliaments WITHOUT a referendum !! Sneaky eh, so much for respecting the democratic results !! And people don’t think they are Bullies ? pfffft yea right …..
I don’t know if you hadn’t realised but Scep and I are hardly on the same side over EU ? …..
Moosey I actually regard you as one of the more intelligent members on here, so how in the last few days you have decided to side with Mrs S and like posts equating Nazis with people who dislike gypsies and the rest of his turgid tripe I’ve absolutely no idea. If you can’t see how ridiculous his arguments are coupled with him slinging out drama Queen labels to people as “Nazis ” “misogynists ” racists” etc etc I’ve clearly misjudged your character. His blanket labelling of people such as Brexit voters for eg is exactly the type of behaviour he supposedly condemns. Racists as an eg do the same thing in tarring everyone with the same negative brush instead of accepting individuals within that group differ as night and day in a multitude of ways with good and bad in both races. He has a habit of throwing labels out at people to fit his warped views on the world fitting this politically correct glove to encompass everything his posting seems to spew from- his behaviour is no different to a racist stating all blacks are XYZ but just substitutes blacks for EU leavers. It’s pure ignorance and anyone supporting it is as guilty as he is.
Rude, can you actually point out to me where I have sided with Scep ? I liked 1, I repeat 1 post, because he concurred that ‘prig’ is not particularly offensive. I’ve liked several of your posts, so what does that mean ? Did you not also see where I wrote that people should learn that ppl have become so brainwashed by the EU that they can’t differentiate between ‘an identity, culture, civilizations’ etc on one hand, and a particular set of political views and opinions on the other. Ie: not supporting free movement does not mean you are a racist ! as an example. I was actually saying it’s wrong to brand anyone Racist, Fascist, etc just because there opinion differs from yours. If I make a post that happens to concur with something someone else has posted that’s just coincidence I assure you. I’ve my own mind, and I’ll speak up when I feel the need to.
If I like a post I like a post, end of. It has nothing to do with the ‘poster’. You can take me at my word on that, or you can disbelieve me. It matters not to me. I shall continue to ‘like’ a post wherever I see fit.
I don’t live on here, as people are beginning to notice.
This is a brexit-heavy site, and a brexit-heavy board. There is no way that I’m going to persuade Gerry, Rude Boy, Mooosey, etc that we should remain.
Apart from occasional interventions by Paigey, who always makes succinct and sharp points, I’m the only one posting in support of Remain here, and if I were to answer every question fired at me I’d be living here at least, living in the Happy Farm for sure.
I’ll answer the questions in my time, not anyone else’s, and I’ll put up with the childish claims of victory by some when I don’t answer immediately. My ‘apologies’ for the delays.
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