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@sceptical guy wrote:
that’s a really crude view of wealth creation, Terry..a version of the 17th century notion of merchantilism. Have a read of some Economics textbooks on teh divison of labour, and especially its international aspects (Ricardo)
A wealthy nation is a nation which lives on credit – future money – and it’s when credit can’t be realised, can’t get paid back, that you get a problem.
Governments have always borrowed money – the amounts borrowed in the last century to pay for welfare, education, defence etc are stupendous (no, I’m not going to go get up-to-date figures for the period 1890-2008). This money is borrowed from the bond markets. The government is so creditworthy that it’s able to sell bonds for money at very low rates of interest.
The UK is AAA, the top notch for credit-worthiness.
The US and UK has in deep debt since 2008 for one reason – Bush and Brown intervened in the banking, housing and insurance sectors to sopt a wholesale banking collapse whihc would have plunged us back ito a genuine poverty.
It’s the banks, not Brown or any other idiot. Brown actually took emergency action whihc saved this country fomr the collapse. The problems we’re faced with stem from his actions in stopping a financial collapse.
The Eurozone is in crisis because some of the governments are in recession, so that paying it back starts becoing iffy. That meanss that the bondmarkets become very very expensive with regard to those governments paying their credit back. Hence they turn to the wealthier governments – Germany, the Netherleands, and Finland – for money to prop up their banking system.
The chances of the UK becoming a major manufacturing nation again while retaining its civil liberties are virtually zilch – we would need a Pol Pot government to turn us into a self-sufficient economy, with real control exercised over the population. Even then, our standard of living would be heading toward s Cambodian levels.
The UK’s wealth lies in its services sector, and in a certain amount of manufacturing as a complement.
=D> =D> =D>
Great post, Scep.
@terry wrote:
You, jen and wordsworth have some weird obsession about telling me what I am rather than concentrating your efforts on debating any given subject.
When that happens (as is often the case) I naturally assume that you are struggling to put any valid points across (as is often the case).
Now, in this particular discussion I am putting across that the UK doesn’t have any money of its own and that is why we borrow money. Hence, we are not a wealthy nation.
Our economy might be large (it’s shrinking rapidly), but that in itself is no indication of true wealth.
The USA has the largest economy in the world, but it isn’t the richest country. Its debts are far worse than our own.
Let me give you a hypothetical example of what wealth is about.
The UK has £1,000,000 in the bank.
They manufacture a product and export it to 10 contries.
In one year the profit from each of those countries equals £100,000.
That makes a total of £1,000,000 which is then added to the bank to give £2,000,000That is wealth creation.
It’s the way the Chinese do it. Ours is very different.
Not only do we give our wealth away in the form of foreign aid we also waste it on wars.We’re not a wealthy nation. The question then is how do we become one..?
Terry, I have never seen you put any valid points forward for any of your arguments.
You never back it up with hard evidence other than the rubbish you read in the Daily Mail, and even then, you distort the Daily Mail’s already distorted view on things, such as the picture of the school children. When the picture was seen in context of the full written article it painted a rather different picture than the one you were trying to portray.
Economists use set criteria to calculate a country’s wealth and have done for years.
Are you telling me you know better than trained and experienced economists?
Wait, don’t answer that as I won’t be answering you as according to you, I can’t put a valid point across, and neither can Words or Jen.
Still, you keep coming back and replying to us though.
Your smug, rude arrogance, and holier than thou attitude is getting rather tedious.
:roll:
@terry wrote:
Ruby says Gordon Brown is not to blame. For anything. Maybe we should give him a knighthood then Ruby?
Gordon Brown was an unelected Prime Minister who caused misery and oppression.
You’re infatuated by Mr Brown.
Would you have preferred he had resigned so we joined the Euro?
@terry wrote:
@panda12 wrote:
It depends on what criteria you use to define “wealthy.”
Having an abundant supply of money or possessions of value.
“There are two standard methods of defining the richest countries in the world. One takes into account the economies that are the largest, as measured by total gross domestic product (GDP). However, the most commonly accepted definition of the wealthiest countries is to determine how rich the average resident of a country is.
Moreover, using a PPP (purchasing power parity) basis is arguably more useful when comparing generalized differences in living standards on the whole between nations. This is because PPP takes into account the relative cost of living and the inflation rates of the countries, rather than using just exchange rates, which may distort the real differences in income. This is the measure most economists prefer when looking at per-capita wealth and when comparing economic strength between countries and living conditions or use of resources across countries.”
From the link that you didn’t bother to read.
I guess it’s best to apply a defined set of criteria to all countries when making this measurement.
@j_in_france wrote:
Until yesterday I would have said Holland, but I have a feeling this tournament could well spring a lot of surprises. Germany did not look that good despite beating Portugal.
Spain Italy today and England France tomorrow could both be interesting matches and may well give a better insight as to the strengths of those countries.
This summer is going to be a great one with the Euros, Tour de France and Olympics
True, Germany didn’t look great.
Olympics will be a nightmare – our fragile transport infrastructure will collapse.
@terry wrote:
Wordworth claims the UK is a wealthy nation.
If that is the case, why are we in so much debt and why do we (as a nation) have to keep borrowing money to pay our way?
Do we really have money in the bank or not?
It depends on what criteria you use to define “wealthy.”
Below uses GDP and in 2010 we were 20th. Not bad considering how small we are compared to countries like Canada and Australia etc.
@rubyred wrote:
I mean.. im sorry if this makes me a bigot.. i do not want my grandson speaking Polish nor latvian.. there is no houses here. and dundee children are being refused local schools as the polacks get in there. some wee 5 year olds have to travel miles.
i do not blame folks being unhappy !
Ruby, I don’t think your grandson is going to be taught to speak Polish or Latvian. He may in secondary school be taught French or German. Will you object to that?
Also, shouldn’t Scottish ppl be speaking Scottish Gaelic rather than English?
@terry wrote:
@rubyred wrote:
I mean.. im sorry if this makes me a bigot.. i do not want my grandson speaking Polish nor latvian.. there is no houses here. and dundee children are being refused local schools as the polacks get in there. some wee 5 year olds have to travel miles.
i do not blame folks being unhappy !
Rubes..
wordsworth, jen jen and panda will explain why east Europeans are of benefit to our society.
No, hang on..they couldn’t come up with an answer.
Oh we did. Several answers in fact but you chose to ignore them.
Btw, I like the way you have said on these boards that you are English and not British.
Ruby is Scottish and lives there yet you establish a common bond with Ruby referring to “our society.”
So it seems you are British when it suits you. :roll:
@jen_jen wrote:
@panda12 wrote:
@jen_jen wrote:
Why did I have an image of Citizen Smith in my head when I read all that? :?
You read it? :shock:
You deserve a medal! I just saw Daily Mail and groaned.
Well when I say read it…my eyes wandered across the words but my brain put it straight into the deluded garbage bin.
Best place for it. Don’t forget to empty said garbage bin. It
must get full quickly when you come on here.If you are still lonely @ Christmas, cosy, you could sing that song by Mud.
