[Sgt Pepper]

@panda12 wrote:

@Sgt Pepper wrote:

@panda12 wrote:

@Sgt Pepper wrote:

@panda12 wrote:

@Sgt Pepper wrote:

Thank you for that panda.. and my apologies. you posted your “explanation” whilst I was posing my question.
Synchronicity at it’s best.

Now, tell me, did you find Tel’s post to be racist at all?

I don’t think it has anything to do with synchronicity. I posted my “explanation” @ 9.09 am, your question was 9.28 am – perhaps you never bothered to read page 11.

Well of course I found Terry’s post racist – Teapot said so didn’t she?

@mrs_teapot wrote:

Panda if you want to start a new thread on that go ahead…. but dont ruin threads with your silly racist remarks… there is only one person here has race issues … thats you, Terry’s remarks were based on sound economic fact… all you do is try to make racist argument where there are none..

I know Im playing into your hands posting this… well so be it… had to be said

Well, how did I find Terry’s post? Rather naive and simplistic, but according to Teapot, it’s “sound economic fact” to blame Polish people. :roll:

:lol: Now now, no need to be so sparky love.
As for the timing of the posts lol.. well, it’s obvious I didn’t read the latter posts of the previous page, but through no insidious conspiracy believe me, not unless you call making my daughter’s fruity porridge whilst trying to post a crime.
Hence the delay.
Hope that clears that major issue up.

I’m still confused.
I didn’t ask for Mrs Teapot’s take.
I want to know yours.
Apart from being naive and simplistic.. was Tel’s post racist or not?
Yes or no?

I’ve answered you, Pepper. Do keep up. :roll:

You did?
Where?
With the “Teapot said so didn’t she?” gig?
Hardly a straightforward confirmation.
Can you give a straightforward confirmation please?
Much appreciated.

My answer is there, Pepper. Have a look and you might find it.

Erm.. Nope.
Still can’t see anything straightforward.
Can anybody else help me out here?
Is this to be a linguistic “Where’s Wally?”.

[Sgt Pepper]

@pepsi wrote:

The difference between fact and opinion is that a fact is something that is empirically true and can be supported by evidence, while an opinion is a belief that may or may not be backed up with some type of evidence. An opinion is normally a subjective statement that can be the result of an emotion or an individual interpretation of a fact. For example, biological differences between males and females are a fact while a preference for one gender over the other is opinion.

Although the differences between facts and opinions usually rest on whether they are objective or subjective respectively, a fact can in some cases be subjective. A subjective fact can communicate how someone is feeling. If a person says he’s feeling sad, that is a subjective fact about his emotional state. On the other hand, if one person tells another that he is sad, this statement would qualify only as my opinion regardless of whether it is true.

A fact can safely be defined as a true belief. Belief is synonymous with opinion, so someone who makes a factual statement also holds an opinion that the fact is true. Therefore all facts are accompanied by an opinion, though opinions do not require facts to be held as true by those who believe them; hence the statement that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I hope you are now totally confused…. :shock:

Excellent post pepsi 8)
Nail on the head.

It is the misrepresentation of an opinion that’s the issue here. Nobody is denying the entitlement, but a certain responsibilty must accompany both the expressing and reception of that opinion for it and it’s arguments to be truly merited. Especially in a debate enviroment.

Negative observations on immigration being misconstrued as racist and/or naive or being dismissed as irrelevant to a socio-political discussion such as this is a perfect example of a totally lazy, if not ignorant approach to these responsibilities.

[Sgt Pepper]

@panda12 wrote:

@Sgt Pepper wrote:

@panda12 wrote:

@Sgt Pepper wrote:

Thank you for that panda.. and my apologies. you posted your “explanation” whilst I was posing my question.
Synchronicity at it’s best.

Now, tell me, did you find Tel’s post to be racist at all?

I don’t think it has anything to do with synchronicity. I posted my “explanation” @ 9.09 am, your question was 9.28 am – perhaps you never bothered to read page 11.

Well of course I found Terry’s post racist – Teapot said so didn’t she?

@mrs_teapot wrote:

Panda if you want to start a new thread on that go ahead…. but dont ruin threads with your silly racist remarks… there is only one person here has race issues … thats you, Terry’s remarks were based on sound economic fact… all you do is try to make racist argument where there are none..

I know Im playing into your hands posting this… well so be it… had to be said

Well, how did I find Terry’s post? Rather naive and simplistic, but according to Teapot, it’s “sound economic fact” to blame Polish people. :roll:

:lol: Now now, no need to be so sparky love.
As for the timing of the posts lol.. well, it’s obvious I didn’t read the latter posts of the previous page, but through no insidious conspiracy believe me, not unless you call making my daughter’s fruity porridge whilst trying to post a crime.
Hence the delay.
Hope that clears that major issue up.

I’m still confused.
I didn’t ask for Mrs Teapot’s take.
I want to know yours.
Apart from being naive and simplistic.. was Tel’s post racist or not?
Yes or no?

I’ve answered you, Pepper. Do keep up. :roll:

You did?
Where?
With the “Teapot said so didn’t she?” gig?
Hardly a straightforward confirmation.
Can you give a straightforward confirmation please?
Much appreciated.

[Sgt Pepper]

@panda12 wrote:

@Sgt Pepper wrote:

Thank you for that panda.. and my apologies. you posted your “explanation” whilst I was posing my question.
Synchronicity at it’s best.

Now, tell me, did you find Tel’s post to be racist at all?

I don’t think it has anything to do with synchronicity. I posted my “explanation” @ 9.09 am, your question was 9.28 am – perhaps you never bothered to read page 11.

Well of course I found Terry’s post racist – Teapot said so didn’t she?

@mrs_teapot wrote:

Panda if you want to start a new thread on that go ahead…. but dont ruin threads with your silly racist remarks… there is only one person here has race issues … thats you, Terry’s remarks were based on sound economic fact… all you do is try to make racist argument where there are none..

I know Im playing into your hands posting this… well so be it… had to be said

Well, how did I find Terry’s post? Rather naive and simplistic, but according to Teapot, it’s “sound economic fact” to blame Polish people. :roll:

:lol: Now now, no need to be so sparky love.
As for the timing of the posts lol.. well, it’s obvious I didn’t read the latter posts of the previous page, but through no indisious conspiracy believe me, not unless you call making my daughter’s fruity porridge whilst trying to post a crime.
Hence the delay.
Hope that clears that major issue up.

I’m still confused.
I didn’t ask for Mrs Teapot’s take.
I want to know yours.
Apart from being naive and simplistic.. was Tel’s post racist or not?
Yes or no?

[Sgt Pepper]

@terry wrote:

@Sgt Pepper wrote:

In saying that, Tel has been guilty of many misdemeanours on this thread.. and I will not defend them.. Very few have.
In fact I condemn them right here , right now.

Please feel free to give an example.

Telboy me oul flower.. I’ll give you three

@terry wrote:

@sceptical guy wrote:

Tel, I’m not getting into a yes it does, no it doesn’t debate. That’s for morons.And I welcome the cosmopolitan nature of the economy. I maintain good relations with Polish people, who are good people on the whole. Their accent doesn’t bother me.

The main problem lies in regulating a decent wage for all to make sure everyone’s wages aren’t reduced to the lowest level. That’s a general problem with markets, not with Europe. In the US black migration to the North a century ago threatened white workers wages, and the whites reacted with vicious racism, killing many in pogroms.

Regulating wages, not a vicious nationalist politics, is the answer.

Sgt pepper, it’s not immigration which is the problem but a financial crisis which has hit all the developed Western world – the US, Britain, the eurozone It took everyone by surprise, and in reaction neo-Nazi groups like Golden Dawn in Greece and a nativist right-wing politics in France and here are making headway. I feel sure this nativcist resurgence can be eventually contained – for all our sakes, I hope it is.

The real problem is understanding why the financial system crashed and, most worrying, whether there’s a tendency for it to keep crashing, which is my fear (there’s been increasing evidence of that in the past 30 yrs). Then how do you move to a situation where we are much more secure in our social environment.

The nativist politics which blames it all on immigrants doesn’t even address the question – we can kick out everybody who seems ‘different’ and still end up in a financial catastrophe.

The problem isn’t Poles (here) or Afghans (in Greece) or gypsies (in France and Italy) – it’s a problem in the banking system, and we’d better see to it pdq.

What absolute rubbish. :roll:

@terry wrote:

@(f)politics? wrote:

Don’t rubbish the whole thing terry, there are some good points, dissect and discuss (i’ll read the debate quietly) :D

Sorry pol, but I don’t have the time or energy to discuss politics with people who haven’t a clue what they’re talking about.
Gordon Brown didn’t have a clue and sceptical guy seems to be sharing the same metaphorical lifeboat with him as this country sinks into the depths of oblivion just like The Titanic did,

@terry wrote:

Pepper..get a life ffs! :roll:

[Sgt Pepper]

Thank you for that panda.. and my apologies. you posted your “explanation” whilst I was posing my question.
Synchronicity at it’s best.

Now, tell me, did you find Tel’s post to be racist at all?

[Sgt Pepper]

@panda12 wrote:

Ty Words for sorting a few things out. Quite surprised at Pepper though. In fact I barely commented on this thread but seemed to have drawn a lot of attention. Shame people can’t read back and see that it was Terry that bought up the whole idea of immigration – and Pepper it was not in his original post and I never said it was.

Good morning panda :)

I can’t for the life of me see how anything I’ve posted here is in any way surprising?
Maybe it’s the frequency of my visits here this last day or two that is so shocking? :shock: Well, we can chalk that down to a form of cabin fever (manflu you see, awful thing).

As for “sorting a few things out”, well, I’m afraid I’ve either completely lost the plot or nothing could be further from the truth.

I guess when it all boils down to it, all I’m asking for is a few answers to a few questions.. and maybe some subsequent clarification if needed? Because at this stage I’m mighty confused.

Please, tell me if you could, was this post…

@panda12 wrote:

Just love the way that somebody has to bring immigrants into it. Typical. :roll:

.. A direct retort to this initial immigration post from Terry?

@terry wrote:

What we need is an end to european integration.

The Poles have sent home – according to a national statistics survey – £23 billion in the last seven years. It’s money our economy cannot afford to lose. It’s basic economic madness for this country to allow east Europeans to work here in the numbers they do.

[Sgt Pepper]

@wordsworth60 wrote:

@Sgt Pepper wrote:

Thank you for “clarifying” Words.

Thing is, it all needed a little too much clarification didnt it?
Still not too clear to me though.

You say “Terry’s reaction to panda’s comment”..
Not the issue I’m dealing with here.
I want clarification on panda’s reaction to Terry.
You see? Yet again there’s an inherent bias here.
Then you muddy the waters further with ” it might have been to sceptical’s agreement”

” Panda still didn’t call anyone racist and could have had other reasons for rolling her eyes.”

In between stifling a laugh at the “could have had other reasons” parT there (she may have been watching footy) I never said she did.

But on the evidence of that one line she posted, she meant to at least dismiss Tel’s post in some fashion no?
Or have I missed something?
Was it a rational retort to a social opinion?

We are being told a lot of what it didn’t mean and a lot of what it might have meant.. yet conversely it seems we are meant to know EXACTLY what Tel meant?
We know exactly what big bad Tel meant why?
Because he isn’t the perceived “victim” in this supposed message boards injustice. He isn’t from the West Indies or Irish or Eastern European or Outer Mongolian or what not.
No.
He is English.
So it his HIS opinion that is assumed and discriminated against in panda’s crude, rolling eyes dismissal.
He shouldn’t breathe a word of what he perceives to be an erosion of his identity? Millions do. The French election is irrefutable proof of that, yet their ballot box right is rarely reflected in the “free” press or even places like here.
I’m not saying I agree with this.. truth be known, I don’t actually.
Yet I’m not lilly livered enough to dismiss the opinions of millions of like minded voters around Europe.
Anti immigration is no longer an extreme point of view.. it is representative.
It needs to be listened to and addressed.
That’s democracy.
Rolling eyes won’t help.

I’m with Myers on this.. and , as I said, he puts its far more eloquently than I ever could.
The language of victimisation and it’s apologists must be adhered to.. Any dissent is racism or homophobia or anti this or uncle that or homoracia (I’m assuming that’s hatred of non white gays.. ok, I’m making that up).

As for this…
“In my comment, I put racism on a scale between simplistic and deceptive. Think about the times you’ve been subjected to racism and you might recognise the corellation.”

I won’t grace such a stupendously idiotic remark with a response.
To attempt to subjectify in such a fashion is truly the refuge of poor argument and populism.
No.
This is not about me.
This is about language.
And one need not type a lot of it to reveal one’s prejudicial correlations.
Yet again, and in this regard, posts “outweighing” others etc is populist drivel.
A post regarding disagreements with levels of immigration should NOT be taken personaly in rational argument.. not in the absence of abuse.
Terry abused no one here.
Argue the facts, the figures.
Without the chip on the shoulder.

In saying that, Tel has been guilty of many misdemeanours on this thread.. and I will not defend them.. Very few have.
In fact I condemn them right here , right now.

But that should not give us the right to dismiss his earlier post as nothing but what it should have been.

And panda never even gave it a chance.

Goodnight pepper, sleep tight :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ty Words, Oh I will now 8)

Like a baby.

Thanks for that :)

[Sgt Pepper]

Thank you for “clarifying” Words.

Thing is, it all needed a little too much clarification didnt it?
Still not too clear to me though.

You say “Terry’s reaction to panda’s comment”..
Not the issue I’m dealing with here.
I want clarification on panda’s reaction to Terry.
You see? Yet again there’s an inherent bias here.
Then you muddy the waters further with ” it might have been to sceptical’s agreement”

” Panda still didn’t call anyone racist and could have had other reasons for rolling her eyes.”

In between stifling a laugh at the “could have had other reasons” parT there (she may have been watching footy) I never said she did.

But on the evidence of that one line she posted, she meant to at least dismiss Tel’s post in some fashion no?
Or have I missed something?
Was it a rational retort to a social opinion?

We are being told a lot of what it didn’t mean and a lot of what it might have meant.. yet conversely it seems we are meant to know EXACTLY what Tel meant?
We know exactly what big bad Tel meant why?
Because he isn’t the perceived “victim” in this supposed message boards injustice. He isn’t from the West Indies or Irish or Eastern European or Outer Mongolian or what not.
No.
He is English.
So it his HIS opinion that is assumed and discriminated against in panda’s crude, rolling eyes dismissal.
He shouldn’t breathe a word of what he perceives to be an erosion of his identity? Millions do. The French election is irrefutable proof of that, yet their ballot box right is rarely reflected in the “free” press or even places like here.
I’m not saying I agree with this.. truth be known, I don’t actually.
Yet I’m not lilly livered enough to dismiss the opinions of millions of like minded voters around Europe.
Anti immigration is no longer an extreme point of view.. it is representative.
It needs to be listened to and addressed.
That’s democracy.
Rolling eyes won’t help.

I’m with Myers on this.. and , as I said, he puts its far more eloquently than I ever could.
The language of victimisation and it’s apologists must be adhered to.. Any dissent is racism or homophobia or anti this or uncle that or homoracia (I’m assuming that’s hatred of non white gays.. ok, I’m making that up).

As for this…
“In my comment, I put racism on a scale between simplistic and deceptive. Think about the times you’ve been subjected to racism and you might recognise the corellation.”

I won’t grace such a stupendously idiotic remark with a response.
To attempt to subjectify in such a fashion is truly the refuge of poor argument and populism.
No.
This is not about me.
This is about language.
And one need not type a lot of it to reveal one’s prejudicial correlations.
Yet again, and in this regard, posts “outweighing” others etc is populist drivel.
A post regarding disagreements with levels of immigration should NOT be taken personaly in rational argument.. not in the absence of abuse.
Terry abused no one here.
Argue the facts, the figures.
Without the chip on the shoulder.

In saying that, Tel has been guilty of many misdemeanours on this thread.. and I will not defend them.. Very few have.
In fact I condemn them right here , right now.

But that should not give us the right to dismiss his earlier post as nothing but what it should have been.

And panda never even gave it a chance.

[Sgt Pepper]

^^^ Him

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