[Sgt Pepper]

@wordsworth60 wrote:

So quickly quoting immigration as the fundamental source of our problems in the middle of an international financial crisis, and dismissing any other perspective seems at best simplistic, at worst deceptive and somewhere on that scale possibly racist – and any of those could prompt rolling eyes, not just racist

Words, your theory here is based on no hard evidence from Terry’s post lol.
Truly astonishing really :lol:

Terry’s post was in direct response to Mrs Teapot’s reflection on Europe.
I don’t see him dismissing anyone in this post.
And what makes his post as conceived as “quickly” or quicker as anyone elses?
Are we down to judging whether opinions should be merited on how quick we can type or how slow we can ponder them now?
What’s all this “fundamental source” business?
And on what (or whose ) scale does supposed “deceptive” turn to “racism” in this post?

As for the whole “Guilt by association” well that’s ludicrous in relation to this and has more holes in it than a tea bag.. it could be argued it’s more discriminating than any of Terry’s remarks in his initial post and stifles any Yes or No debate on the subject, reducing it to Yes, More Yes or You Cannot Say No censorship.

I put it to you that it was panda and not Terry who jumped to too many conclusions here.. and that your retrospective sweep up is proving to be rather redundant.

[Sgt Pepper]

I’m sorry if panda or anyone has had it tough as you say scept.
I know nothing of them if it is indeed true, so I won’t insult the lady by pandering to her mistakes just because she has.

Look.. Ok.. I’ve quoted Bill Clinton’s oft trumpeted “It’s the economy, stupid” on other threads here, and yes sceptical, with regard to this particular stream it resonates more than ever.
Economic collapse, financial famine, debt crisis.. whatever way we want to address it, is one of the root causes of most socio-political woes, and must be tackled head on.

However.. to attempt to do this without confronting thorny issues such as .. yes.. immigration.. as well as banking/lending structures, big centralised government, education, the welfare state, law and order – to name but a few – shows a distinct lack of knowledge of political realities ranging from the naive to complete stupidity.

Terry brought up immigration and we were told it was “typical” with rolling eyes.
Typical of what may I ask?
Could it be construed that nobody can dare have the slightest negative observation when it comes to immigration without being at best dismissed in such throw-away terms and at worst branded a racist?
I could have taken a similar route with your summation of events here in Ireland.
I did not.
For it’s your opinion.. put forth in good faith I’m sure.. and with the (somewhat limited it would seem) knowledge available to you at the time.

I stand by my challenge.. For anyone to show me where Terry’s initial immigration post was anyway racist or deserved the treatment it received.
The silence so far has been quite deafening.

PS I in no way advocate Terry’s subsequent posts.

PPS I did say we should move on from this but it seems sceptical had different ideas :lol:

[Sgt Pepper]

Must admit that when I first saw the title of this thread, I immediately thought of this Leonard Cohen classic.
A bit scary in many ways.. but difficult to argue with at times.

THE FUTURE

Give me back my broken night
my mirrored room, my secret life
it’s lonely here,
there’s no one left to torture
Give me absolute control
over every living soul
And lie beside me, baby,
that’s an order!

Give me crack and anal sex
Take the only tree that’s left
stuff it up the hole
in your culture
Give me back the Berlin wall
give me Stalin and St Paul
I’ve seen the future, brother:
it is murder.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won’t be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
The blizzard, the blizzard of the world
has crossed the threshold
and it has overturned
the order of the soul
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant.

You don’t know me from the wind
you never will, you never did
I was the little jew
who wrote the Bible
I’ve seen the nations rise and fall
I’ve heard their stories, heard them all
but love’s the only engine of survival
Your servant here, he has been told
to say it clear, to say it cold:
It’s over, it ain’t going
any further
And now the wheels of heaven stop
you feel the devil’s riding crop
Get ready for the future:
it is murder.

Things are going to slide …

There’ll be the breaking of the ancient
western code
Your private life will suddenly explode
There’ll be phantoms
There’ll be fires on the road
and a white man dancing
You’ll see a woman
hanging upside down
her features covered by her fallen gown
and all the lousy little poets
coming round
tryin’ to sound like Charlie Manson
and the white man dancin’.

Give me back the Berlin wall
Give me Stalin and St Paul
Give me Christ
or give me Hiroshima
Destroy another fetus now
We don’t like children anyhow
I’ve seen the future, baby:
it is murder.

Things are going to slide …

When they said REPENT REPENT …

Leonard Cohen

Umm… Sleep well 8-[

[Sgt Pepper]

@wordsworth60 wrote:

Why was Panda considered racist in voicing her opinion that the way immigration was introduced in this thread was itself racist?

Well, Words, I certainly didn’t consider panda’s remarks racist.
Judgemental, dismissive and perhaps a little ignorant? Absolutely.
Most especially in her reference to typicality.
Quite a generality from someone playing a race card.

As for Terry’s ORIGINAL post.. I challenge even the most populist on here to point out it’s Racism.

In the meantime.. Let’s get back on track.
Maybe it’s a cyclical thing Kenty?
Maybe the socio-economic horror stories being witnessed today are every bit as monumental as World Wars in regard to the urgent need for re-shaping and re-building New World Orders as it were?
Or would that be too exaggerated a leap?
Obviously the mortal cost of the major 20th century conflicts was huge and I wouldn’t dare compare today’s woes .. No, I guess I’m talking about “Event Politics”.
One could argue that a more comprehensive overhaul in why and (more importantly) how we live has never been more needed?
Could such revolution come about without catastrophe?

Maybe 8)

Three words I guess..

Ed

U

Cation.

[Sgt Pepper]

Take it easy now Telboy [-X

People have defended your right to make statements and not have them dismissed on this very thread.
Try not to undo all that with some of your more vicious trips to the Dark Side huh broseph?

As for the Myers article, I thinks it’s more to do with that most awful of oxymorons “Liberal Dogma” than immigration in itself.
He uses immigration as a topical (if prime) example due to the French elections.

The telling points for me are..

” Le Pen, of course, violates the unspoken core-dogma in the Brussels Imperium, which is that Strong Opinions on Immigration are by definition Racist Opinions.

No they’re not. They’re just strong opinions on immigration, that’s all.”

“Now what commentary do the liberal media elites allow over such matters? Well, the answer is none. Instead, they opt for the politically correct abuse of opponents of immigration. They insist on describing natives who are unhappy at the consequences of immigration as “racist”. “

And..

“Let’s get this straight. This column is not about immigration, which, in moderation, I’m in favour of.

It’s about language, and about how certain groups are authorised to talk freely about immigration, while others are not — well, not without being subject to the kind of hate-abuse that is actually the primary form of censorship of our times. “

[Sgt Pepper]

@panda12 wrote:

@Sgt Pepper wrote:

Surely immigration (and indeed emigration) are crucial factors in most (if not all) things socio-political panda?

I see no wrong whatsoever in Terry being able to say what he said.. I may agree or disagree politically of course (though it’s hard to argue with such cold, hard figures).

But, a statement like this should be deemed reasonable to debate as opposed to dismissing it as some form of taboo subject no?
It’s relevant.

Well Pepper, how do you see the human race? All God’s children or are we broken down into individual races?

That’s a huge question panda.

I guess in attempting to answer I’d have to say that of the two examples you give there, I don’t see why one would have to be totally exclusive from the other?

I suppose I’d have to say both.. and more.

[Sgt Pepper]

@sceptical guy wrote:

Sgt pepper, it’s not immigration which is the problem..

I never said immigration was a problem sceptical.
I said it’s an issue.
That’s irrefutable.
To deny that is nonsense.

It’s an issue amongst many.
As far as it being a problem.. that’s for one’s own politics and outlook.

MY problem was Terry’s perfectly reasonable post on the issue being dismissed simply because he BROUGHT IT UP.

Actually, I’m going to let someone much better than me elucidate here.
For those truly interested in this subject, please indulge me and give THIS article your consideration.

I’d love to hear people’s opinions ..

[Sgt Pepper]

Surely immigration (and indeed emigration) are crucial factors in most (if not all) things socio-political panda?

I see no wrong whatsoever in Terry being able to say what he said.. I may agree or disagree politically of course (though it’s hard to argue with such cold, hard figures).

But, a statement like this should be deemed reasonable to debate as opposed to dismissing it as some form of taboo subject no?
It’s relevant.

[Sgt Pepper]

Looks like this is turning into a debate on the EU :roll:
I guess the thread itself opens up many questions though.. with politics in general and Europe in particular playing a significant part in fairness.

So, on that subject, we Irish yet again have a referendum to contend with..

The European Fiscal Compact

We go to the polls on May 31st.
Looks like it may pass.. Only just.

[Sgt Pepper]

Oh lighten up Tel you dingbat!!!

(*Translate accordingly*)

:P

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