11 July, 2019 at 4:26 am #1116976
Lol of course it’s not astonishing !! How on earth would he be able to achieve anything worthwhile under the circumstances. The position was untenable ! And let’s face it it wasn’t of Trumps doing , UK stuffed that up themselves , and don’t even go there saying confidentiality etc etc. There is none in basic formats between any states and ambassadors, etc etc, they play in that league, they know the score, very naive of the British office , embarrassing even
Don’t be so harsh in your assessment, stuff happens as they say! But, yes, the relationship would have been strained at best moving forward. The “special relationship” is bigger than this flap and will live on.
1 member liked this post.11 July, 2019 at 4:27 am #1116977
Oh dear cleared , hope you are well btw , I fear you think us Brits as totally above all cynicism etc True , honest and stiff upper lip, like your country we talk a lot of poo , and all is not always as it seems11 July, 2019 at 4:28 am #111697811 July, 2019 at 9:30 am #1116981
And forgive me for being stupid but “ resigns as PM ? “
Wishful thinking on my part about Johnson maybe???11 July, 2019 at 12:00 pm #1116994
As any one knows…I cant stick politics but the world needs law and order…..I pay my taxes and I pay for many others……….ones thing’s for sure….if any political entities from this site got into power…..the Doomsday clock wouldn’t have a chance to recalculate……LMAO..11 July, 2019 at 12:02 pm #1116995
Enjoying each others company?…that Trump and Queen or Sceppers and Pepsi Max?…………..11 July, 2019 at 6:51 pm #1117038
Astonishing? Not really. Not insulting one’s host country, and host, is diplomacy and courtesy 101. After President Trump’s excellent state visit to the UK, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the queen made a phone call, resulting in Darroch’s “resignation”. If that’s the case, at least Her Majesty gets it.
Many thanks for the rationally worded response. It makes reasonable discussion more likely.
I don’t think you grasp the full seriousness of the situation, understandable as you seem to come from across the pond (?) where the UK is not that important, apart from providing military support to US ventures and looming up as a juicy little morsel in Trump’s trading eye.
He didn’t openly send the mail saying that Trump was inept etc. If he head he would have been sacked before Trump could send a tweet.
The mail was leaked deliberately, by all accounts.
Now that does make Darroch’s position very difficult. He wasn’t saying anything new or startling but the leak constitutes what’s called an embarrassment.
It’s the reaction of Trump and Johnson which is extraordinary.
Any other President would have react5ed ‘diplomatically’. Most likely a sardonic joke at the ambassador, and a diplomatic push at the British government. The ambassador would have quietly moved back into anonymity and been replaced, while a profuse set of apologies would have been made. Diplomats have ways of dealing with this.
But Trump not only tweets that Darroch is stupid, wacky etc, but more important says that and declares that he’s going to freeze the ambassador out. Instead of the guest country having some semblance of control over its own affairs, Trump is effectively demanding that the ambassador be removed, adding insults at Mrs May’s expense and looking forward to the wonderful UK having a new and more effective PM. This is a formally insulting way to treat a country. Where darroch insulted Trump in private, Trump goes public.
Darroch apparently decided to resign after Johnson refused to support him. This has caused the Civil Service, especially the Foreign office, to rise in anger. Ambassadors send all sorts of embarrassingly frank details to their governments because that’s their job. When caught out, the government formally backs them to the hilt and quietly deals with the embarrassment, sometimes by replacing them. Johnson didn’t formally back darroch. he knows who his new boss will be.
It means that the UK is in formal terms humiliated. The ability of the government to choose its ambassador without any interference is at teh very least compromised, and Embassies everywhere are now very aware that they won’t have their government’s backing when push comes to shove.
This is just the beginning. If the Iran problem blows up – and that is very possible – the brit army will be backing the US and the Saudis in the resulting war. We have to. We will need- and need desperately – a US trade treaty, and the puppet master isn’t polite in how he pulls the strings.11 July, 2019 at 10:19 pm #1117053
That Trump. You expect him to be nicey nicey. Lol. And the U.S. will always back up the Brits while Trump in office..it was my understanding and seeing in news Darroch did come out and say it..why keep such a lovely comment to one self. Trump no chicken for insulting dignartaries what said in private. Due to leak out..that entertainment for media and world.
Oh scep..you will never understand truly American politics as we truly not fully understand yours..
11 July, 2019 at 11:02 pm #1117056
- This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by lindaclemenza7.
Oooo. Brave words Linda !! Telling Scep he doesn’t understand !!! Red rag to a bull that. Watch this space ! Lol.
And yes I am being sarky Scep !!
😉🤪11 July, 2019 at 11:11 pm #1117058
You mean I disagree with you, not that I have little understanding of US politics.
However, this isn’t about US politics, Linda.
This is about the traditional respect with which countries treat one another.
The leak of private advice to the UK government was deliberate, though its motivation is guesswork. The advice was that Trump was inept and incompetent – hardly news, but distinctly embarrassing to Darroch, the ambassador. Trump then bullied Darroch into an impossible position. The UK government gave its full support of Darroch – as could be expected – but when Johnson broke with all tradition by refusing to give his support, Darroch (a particularly astute ambassador) resigned at once. It’s caused alarm throughout the Foreign office and we can imagine in ritish embassies around the world, and Johnson has to to play his smoke-and-mirrors routine in backing off.
Trump chose to exercise maximum influence to drive a foreign ambassador out, and his man in the UK failed to support that ambassador against all the conventions of diplomacy.
What we’re getting is a major indication that Britain is in the process of getting a new ruler.