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  • #1133938

    For several months I have engaged in banter with the trumpers that have permeated into what use to be a decent chat room but has recently become some refuge for Americans to presumably find some solace from their lives. What shocked me the most was the god-like way in which these trumpers appeared to idolise their president when most of the rest of the world saw him for what he has always been – a fraud. Only in America, the home of cult and conspiracy could such a man convince 74 million humans to vote for his continuation of power, ignoring the fact that 81 million didn’t want him anymore. This was never a case of political divide – this was about understanding when a man is lying to you for his own selfish profit. I summise that a lot of Americans lead such sad mundane lives that when a man in a blue suit and a red baseball cap promises to change their lives, they are desperate to believe him. So, whilst I watched middle aged seemingly normal women interviewed on TV justifying the storming of the Capitol by rioting seditious trumpers, I can see that America is on a bit of a sticky wicket with many extremists under the guise of so-called patriots threatening to tear your land apart with bullets. I recently asked trumpers in F1 if they feared the next civil war and received abuse for even suggesting it. A comment from a Capitol rioter said today 9th Jan ” I don’t care about Trump anymore, I only care about war”

    I hope your new government is clever enough to realise that half of America needs to be gently made aware of the lies that have soaked into your social fabric about election fraud. There was no fraud. The only fraud has only ever been trump but if you had nothing else to live for and trump became your life then I can understand how you were taken in.

    Every trumper should feel ashamed to have been taken in by this fraud. But at the same time, you have my sympathy because even though I can criticise your choice, I can’t criticise your gullibility. For that cure, which is your choice, you need help from your family, friends and neighbours. Perhaps one day, your country will be whole again and you can regain the world beacon of  true democracy.

    You have my most gracious wishes.

    #1133946

    As an American and a chatter of J.c. in all rooms in which conversations typed when busy perhaps..I find your comment/opinion purely your own, very rude and franky full of shit. “What use to be a decent room, refuge, solace for our life.” Are you for real?

    Some of us have been here a while. Not a newbie to J.C. and have engaged in American politics to explain, provide knowledge as citizens, and inform. Yes debate, agree, defend or disagree has had some heated conversations with a few, as living here we can not speak for ourselves? Some know our laws and conditions better than us? I am sure you are aware with our news as well as your own political news, certain headlines used to draw in attention. Yep even edited if wish by media.

    We are all adults here and your trashing of our freedom and choices again your opinion, conclusion of 74 million people who voted for “Change”.

    Are you Speaker of the House for the World? Cult and fraud? Mundane lives? Too funny.

    You may hate the man your choice really, don’t provide your so called “KNOWLEDGE” on how he has made many good changes in 40 years we know, and you don’t.

    So spew as few others will.  We have tried to provide proof numerous times with links and encouraged knowledge (often by cleared2, by the way thank you, and puds).

     

    :unsure:   :bye:   PROUD AMERICAN..

    Challenges some times has difficulty. Change perhaps difficult, but in the end of all this chaos for us right now.. MANY Good AMERICANS, good HEARTS AND SOULS here in J.C. so suck it up bud..we proud of whom we are. We decided to be here with those we engage with as our choice..lol not Trump…

     

    #1133949

    Hi Linda, thanks for taking the time to reply to my post. I knew you wouldn’t let me down.

    I lived and worked in Seattle for Boeing for nearly 6 years. The salmon from Lake Washington was superb and I made many friends there but I also saw the worst of America even in the 80’s and in particular the hard political choices you had – either left or right with no meaningful presence of the independent or middle ground. The word ‘partisan’ seemed hard to accept coming from a more liberal (with a small l) society. We seem to be able to manage  our nearly 50 million general election votes here in the UK with not a lot of fuss and the new guy or lady is in Number 10 within 24 hours.

    BTW I’ve been in and out of JC for over a decade. Generally when I’m bored. I do need to take my logo down though if guidey will allow me to.

    Anyway…

    I can see why many people might have been excited about trump’s achievements but I’m afraid it was always going to be rather short term. His individual and corporate tax cuts and the resultant economic and stock market growth were only going to go one way after reaching the heady highs that they did. You do have a quarter of a wall and I hear the Mexican’s are keen to finish it to keep the Americans out.(joke). However do I pity Biden having to deal with that fall-out leave alone having trump’s disasterous management of covid to deal with.Stay safe and wear a mask.

    I’ve observed the common trait that trumpers have in deflecting the conversation and avoiding discussing the realities. What I am keen to know is if you do recognise trump’s darker side so I’ll make this easy for you. 10 easy questions for you to consider – if you wish.

    1. Do you agree that he incited his followers to march to the Capitol and that he and his mates (boy trump and giuliani included) help to rile the crowd so much  that it was inevitable some of them would bash the doors down, wreck the building and kill policeman? Note that he’d built them up to do this over 4 and more years. I do pity the poor girl’s family who have to live with her pointless death.
    2. Did I really hear on several channels some of them saying that they would bring guns next time or was I imagining that?
    3. Do you believe the Qanon bullshit – sorry – theory that the violent rioters were leftists or antifa and everyone else was there to have tea and crumpets on the lawn?
    4. Would you have gone into the Capitol building if you had been there Linda?
    5. Were you there?
    6. Being a retired nerd with a bit of spare time, I’ve studied almost everyone of the so called fraudulent voting issues. EVERYONE of them- including your graphs and other points- have been COMPELETLY debunked by the Republican officials who were in charge of the elections. Probably everyone of them wanted trump to win but NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF SCREWING THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS. I think you should be proud of those Americans who believe and en-act your Constitution to the letter.  I urged Cleared2Land (and Puds)  to listen to Gabriel Sterling’s speech where he goes over every contentious voting point regarding Georgia. I suggest you do the same. It’ll help short-cut your re-education process called “THE TRUTH” Can you do that Linda? Please? Googling ‘ youtube none of that is true sterling ‘ will get you to it. You’ve put your evidence. Now it’s time to hear the other side. Like in court. If you believe in justice.
    7. Hey Linda, do you still believe  in democracy and the peaceful and presidential transition of power?
    8. Are you going to listen to what your new President (That’s Joe Biden by the way) has to say about the future of your country and on a media channel that makes some attempt to toe the middle (pseudo truthful) ground? Linda, here’s a hint. Ozzie Rupert Murdoch really doesn’t have your personal interests in mind. He only wants your money. And as for newsmax, oann, rush limbaugh etc etc,,,,…… nahhh. They really do tell so many fibs to max their advertising revenues. Even though it has it’s faults, I still believe in the BBC, paid for by the people,accountable to the people, no adverts, fantastic dramas and reasonably fair news reporting. They reported trump as he was. In my humble opinion, America desperately needs a BBC.
    9.  Do you think you might be taken in by the trump dynasty in the future? A lot of trumpers appear to have dedicated their votes for Eric, Don Jr, Ivanka and Baron already. I ask because if you were to have a clever trumpist in the Oval Office in the future…….o m g.
    10. and the last. Do you know anyone who voted for trump in 2016 but regrets it now? They might be a good friend to have.

     

    ..and to the Proud American – God Bless America – just don’t send us your chlorinated chicken.

    Love and Peace

     

     

    #1133950

    I’m not Linda, or particularly much of a Trump supporter but I will attempt to answer these questions.

    Do you agree that he incited his followers to march to the Capitol and that he and his mates (boy trump and giuliani included) help to rile the crowd so much that it was inevitable some of them would bash the doors down, wreck the building and kill policeman? Note that he’d built them up to do this over 4 and more years. I do pity the poor girl’s family who have to live with her pointless death.

    No, he did not. He told them to stop and to go home, but was censored by Twitter, Facebook, ect so that he could not communicate this to the people involved.

    The people who incited this are those who refused to investigate allegations of voter fraud, leaving this as the only remaining option.

    Did I really hear on several channels some of them saying that they would bring guns next time or was I imagining that?

    I have not heard this. but it doesn’t seem likely given their behaviour while inside the building.

    Do you believe the Qanon bullshit – sorry – theory that the violent rioters were leftists or antifa and everyone else was there to have tea and crumpets on the lawn?

    It has been confirmed that antifa members infiltrated the protest group. How many there were, and what they did is unknown and likely never will be.

    Would you have gone into the Capitol building if you had been there?

    Probably not.

    Were you there?

    No, i’m not American.

    Being a retired nerd with a bit of spare time, I’ve studied almost everyone of the so called fraudulent voting issues. EVERYONE of them- including your graphs and other points- have been COMPELETLY debunked by the Republican officials who were in charge of the elections. Probably everyone of them wanted trump to win but NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF SCREWING THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS. I think you should be proud of those Americans who believe and en-act your Constitution to the letter. I urged Cleared2Land (and Puds) to listen to Gabriel Sterling’s speech where he goes over every contentious voting point regarding Georgia. I suggest you do the same. It’ll help short-cut your re-education process called “THE TRUTH” Can you do that Linda? Please? Googling ‘ youtube none of that is true sterling ‘ will get you to it. You’ve put your evidence. Now it’s time to hear the other side. Like in court. If you believe in justice.

    Much of the evidence is not public, as it was never heard in court. It’s not possible for this evidence to be “debunked”. The samples of evidence that have been presented in public hearings have not been “debunked”.

    Do you still believe in democracy and the peaceful and presidential transition of power?

    I am not particularly a fan of democracy, but transition to a president that half of the electorate does not believe won the election is not democratic.

    Are you going to listen to what your new President (That’s Joe Biden by the way) has to say about the future of your country and on a media channel that makes some attempt to toe the middle (pseudo truthful) ground? Linda, here’s a hint. Ozzie Rupert Murdoch really doesn’t have your personal interests in mind. He only wants your money. And as for newsmax, oann, rush limbaugh etc etc,,,,…… nahhh. They really do tell so many fibs to max their advertising revenues. Even though it has it’s faults, I still believe in the BBC, paid for by the people,accountable to the people, no adverts, fantastic dramas and reasonably fair news reporting. They reported trump as he was. In my humble opinion, America desperately needs a BBC.

    Legacy media is biased beyond all reason, anything they have to say isn’t worth listening to.

    Do you think you might be taken in by the trump dynasty in the future? A lot of trumpers appear to have dedicated their votes for Eric, Don Jr, Ivanka and Baron already. I ask because if you were to have a clever trumpist in the Oval Office in the future…….o m g.

    There is no Trump dynasty if Biden becomes president, and I dont think there is if he doesn’t either.

    Do you know anyone who voted for trump in 2016 but regrets it now? They might be a good friend to have.

    Not one, but I know many people who voted for Clinton 2016 who said they voted for Trump in 2020.

     

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    #1133951

     

    Hey drac, well done girl. I haven’t got time to address all of your drivel so I’ll just destroy the first point about the incitement.

    Mr. Trump’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., warmed up the audience by warning of challenges to Republican members of Congress who did not back the pro-Trump efforts: “We’re coming for you,” he said. (Wow…we’re coming for you – language to trumpers carrying guns???)

    Before the president took the stage, his personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani addressed the crowd and called for “trial by combat” against the Democrats to win the election. (trial by combat drac…hey girl..do you know the meaning of combat???)
    <p class=”css-axufdj evys1bk0″>“We want to be so respectful of everybody,” Mr. Trump said, before describing his political opponents as bad people. “And we are going to have to fight much harder. And Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us, and if he doesn’t, that will be a sad day for our country. Because you’re sworn to uphold our Constitution.”</p>
    <p class=”css-axufdj evys1bk0″>Calling the outcome of the election “this egregious assault on our democracy,” he said his supporters should “walk down to the Capitol.”</p>
    <p class=”css-axufdj evys1bk0″>“We are going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women,” he continued, “and we are probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them — because you will never take back our country with weakness.”</p>
    <p class=”css-axufdj evys1bk0″>Mr. Trump did not in fact accompany the supporters he pressed to fight for him; he returned to the White House and berated aides about how the scene had appeared, before attacking Mr. Pence on Twitter for his stand.</p>
     

    I’m quoting the New York Times but his speech is on youtube et al.

    You’ll notice drac that when Trump said “we” he of course didn’t mean that – he went to his bunker while his troops did the trashing.

    Then after the Capitol was invaded – Biden appealed to him to get on TV and demand his cultists leave the building.

    Trump then put out a video asking his followers to go home… with his love.

     

    Those are the facts – a few of which you have conveniently left out. If you want to contribute properly to this debate – get your story straight.

    And if you want me to trash your other 9 points, you only have to ask.

     

    1 member liked this post.
    #1133955

    Drac excellent points thank you.

    I will respond to his numerous statements.

    Having lunch. Relaxing..and long long shifts. I need a little breathing time. Lol

    BUT MOST CERTAINLY WILL

     

    #1133957

    Take your time linda, but please listen to Gabriel before your gird your loins. I’ve listened to enough of the giuliani/powell hearing ‘evidence’ over the last few weeks. I’m sure you can spare 20 minutes to balance the books, if you have the humanity to.

    #1133958

    Oh no. I am going to do serious conversation.

    And u did want answers to several ?’s

    I am no stranger to the political arena so my mind set will be focused.

    And I have worked 3 days in row 12-14 hours so thank you for my little extra time to respond.

     

     

    #1133959

    linda, get some sleep. I’d like your considerations when you’re fresh and properly rested. I always get grumpy when i’m tired so don’t get emotional over your thoughts. If you’re working hard for your family then that’s more important than a lively debate with a Londoner.

    Take care my sweet x

     

    #1133966

    Thank you for sharing your history with U.s.a. I hope time spent here provided positive exposure and good memories as recent events seen through out the world does make Americans and this 1 of the millions, a little dishearten due to media exposure and ability to add and edit when please.

    So having some pure knowledge of an employee pay check, taxes paid, living in a community with local politics provides you more insight and a level to a degree.

    You are aware we have more than 2 parties that vote besides Republicans and Democrats, are you not? So why is it the world and media only speak of them and let their voices be heard? Working Class, Conservatives, Independence and Independent are the millions of others whom vote as well.

    At an early age, able to vote first time truly, who at 18 knows about politics. I sure didn’t. Most people I spoke with then discussed what sounded good..they voted, or whom parents voted for as told too! But a stubborn hard head child back then, “No one was ever going to tell me who to be my President to represent me, but me.” I never wanted to do pay back or beholding to a political party and many many many years later voting never changed my party  affiliation. Never will!

    FREEDOM- The state of being free, the absence of restrictions.

    FREEDOM OF Association- the right to peaceably assemble as guaranteed by first amendment.

    FREEDOM OF expression- general term referring to the freedom of press, religion and speech.

    FREEDOM OF press- right to publish and circulate “One’s views” as guaranteed by first amendment. 167 A.L.R. 1447

    FREEDOM OF SPEECH- The right to express ones thoughts without governmental restrictions on the contents thereof guaranteed by first amendment. 333 u.s  507. ( Steven H. Gifis, Law Dictionary 1975)

     

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 49 total)

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