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Nonetheless, the solution is in secularism.
I don’t think anyone here is really argueing otherwise, maybe BB.
The problem we are discussing here is the radical parts of the Islamic community that will violently reject anything other than Islamic rule.
You don’t want Muslims to integrate more and have said so in plain English
I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion from what I said, but if I said it in plain English then i’m sure you can quote it for me.
so you are again being disingenuous and other than forcing your own ideology on Muslims, have offered no sensible and realistic solutions.
The only thing I could be described as forcing is making Sharia illegal. I don’t really think I should be stoned to death because i’m gay, sorry if you disagree with that. I don’t think you have actually read anything that I have said.
The thread is called “Muslims must integrate more”, which is why I was talking about Islam specifically.
Carrying firearms is an offence. Many people would like to carry a firearm for whatever reason, but as its outlawed, they dont, because the penalties in place are an effective deterrent.
Shooting someone is also illegal, but if you are willing to break that law, then I don’t see why you would be deterred by carrying a gun also being illegal.
This is the main problem I have with ‘hate crimes’ making something doubly illegal is no more effective than it being normally illegal. You could just increace the punishment for shooting someone instead.
To be honest, I have given up on this thread because the ideological Islamophobia expressed on it, leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
Islamophobia is a concept created by the muslim brotherhood to enable a way of shutting down criticisms of Islam. Can you explain to what was said that is Islamophobic, and why it is bad.
Even what BB has said is a very accurate representation of a litteral interpretation of Islam, although this is not what is practiced by most muslims (in Britain) in my oppinion. If you disagree with this then I suggest you actually read the Quran and understand what it calling for.
I don’t see, except for a couple of posts, (Tapioca and Scep) anything other than religious hatred and bigotry.
Tapioca wanted to outlaw religion and ridicule anyone who practices it, that is much more extreme (bigoted as you would call it) than anything I have suggested, lol.
I didn’t say that demand wasn’t also a problem, lol. It is one, and probably the biggest one. But I don’t think you should ignore the other factors that contribute to it as well. I know that foreign investment is a problem specifically in London, but I think it also happens in other developed areas of the country.
Separate the church from the state.
This is difficult to do in the UK, as the monarch is head of the Church Of England. Technically the monarchy is chosen by God under the UK constitution, so entirely seperating the church from the state would probably also mean becomming a republic. Religion also isn’t very important in politics in contrast to somwhere like the US that does have seperation, but you have to openly be a christian to have any real chance of getting into the higher positions.
Vigourous sloganry, advertising, campaigns and anti-religious sentiment.
The media would be able to do this against Christianity, but it would be difficult to get them to do this to Islam. They would just call you racist for suggesting it. There has to be other changes in society before this can be done.
Associate religion with occult and other defunct practices.
I think that most atheists already do this, although human nature demands some kind of beliefs. I myself have some spiritual beliefs, even though I know they are factually incorrect.
Vigourous review of teaching religion to children. no religious schools.
This is a weird one for me, I actually have some level of support for religious schools if they actually teach things that are factually accurate. I don’t like the idea of the state having a monopoly on education (SHR is going to call me a libertarian again now), it gives them too much power to indoctrinate children into their own ideology (be it communism, nazism or something else). I home school my children because I don’t trust the state school system to provide them with an accurate view of the world, from my own experiences and discussions I have had with other parents in the past.
Using the excuse of “doing it for the children” to justify all measures taken.
I’m not really a fan of this kind of logic either, it is nearly always used with the assumption that the person saying it has the ‘right’ opinion in an argument.
removal and dismantling of religion buildings, or to re allocate to other uses.
I disagree with this one quite strongly, many religious buildings are very old and shouldn’t be destroyed. Even if we were able to completely remove religion, these buildings should be reserved for historical use only, to teach people what used to be believed and how they practiced those religions.
portraying religion as an archaic negative practice best avoided, like the occult
I’m not really a fan of this either, it should be portrayed accurately. Which is nearly always negative I admit.
any remaining practicants likely to be ridiculed.
general consensus of intolerance to religion amongst the public.
It depends on the level and seriousness of the ridicule you are suggesting.
religion to children illegal.
religion for all, illegal
I think it is very dangerous to make any belief or idea illegal, those laws can later be applied to other things, like disagreeing with the government. This is what happened with state inforced atheism in the Soviet Union for example.
A clear and concrete secularism with intention of making religious practice illegal. Of course it wouldn’t be a bed of roses, and there will be problems, but I do think it could be achieved with the general public’s backing and support. Im sure the vast majority of British people wouldnt mind losing religion. It could even all be bundled up in a new age Brexit – Trump – Putin package with pretty sequined ribbons on it
I don’t think there actually would be much support for this. I am an atheist, I would happily erase religion from the world if it were possible. But I don’t support most of the methods you have suggested.
Of course, and ideally, Religion doesn’t have to be outlawed if people can just stop doing it, or such a tiny minority are doing it it’s of no significance. The above was a very loose suggestion with room for improvements
I have given a basic response to your suggestion, and I am happy to go into more detail with you over it. It doesn’t really do much to deal with the current problem we are having with Islam though. It’s already illegal both to steal lorries, and to run people over. But people still do it anyway, making something illegal isn’t a fix-all solution.
I absolutely agree that unskilled mass economic migration in the UK has obviously increased competition in some sectors and also lowered wages, in those sectors and has in real terms, over the last 15 years or so in particular.
This is what Bank Of England said, recent trends of immigration have been mostly unskilled workers, and we have seen a depression in wages in those jobs. I think if we saw large scale skilled imigration the same would happen there.
Has increased demand in the public sector and has also fueled the mother of all housing bubbles, because demand outstrips supply in all three instances
This is one cause, there are also others. One other major cause of this is foreign investors buying houses to rent for profit. This inflates the value of houses, and I think it should be illegal for anyone who doesn’t live in the UK to purchase (residential) property here to combat this problem.
Of course it all began in the 80’s under Thatcher with mass unemployment and the deliberate creation of a surplus labor force in the emerging less regulated, “flexible” market. This monetarist policy was an absolute disaster for the British economy in the 80’s, felt to this very day and corporatism, a total mockery of “capitalism”, is the end result.
I agree with this, unregulated markets isn’t how capitalism is meant to work. I guess you could perhaps call it corporatism instead.
No idea what the horseshoe theory is.
The general idea is that the more extreme you get on the left / right spectrum the more similar to each other they become. (I.e. State censorship of media, abandonment of individual rights, ect).
The Bank of England can be mistaken, for sure,
It can, but I think in this case they are right. Increaced competition for jobs lowers wages.
but if you think it’s on a par with the anti-immigrant lies that I’ve seen on Facebook, then you live a sheltered life.
I don’t use Facebook, so I don’t know exactly what is said on there.
