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@panda12 wrote:

Good post, momentary.

Thanks

:)

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@terry wrote:

@panda12 wrote:

Matthew Elliott doesn’t say what the costs would be to us if we do leave the EU in terms of how will it affect imports and exports? Will they become more expensive?

Will other EU countries refuse to trade with us?

Elliott doesn’t say what the economic impact is envisaged to be. It’ll be no good us leaving and each person saving approx £1600 if it means the cost of food and living goes up due to increased export and import tax.

Being argumentative is fine just as long as you balance that with a touch of common sense.

Can’t argue against the Matthew Elliott point in your previous post about doing a full analysis of the costs and benefits of the EU.

We are all guilty of picking the bits that excite or interest us and making a full case from those (well I am sometimes anyway).

8)

[momentaryloss]

@panda12 wrote:

Matthew Elliott doesn’t say what the costs would be to us if we do leave the EU in terms of how will it affect imports and exports? Will they become more expensive?

Will other EU countries refuse to trade with us?

Elliott doesn’t say what the economic impact is envisaged to be. It’ll be no good us leaving and each person saving approx £1600 if it means the cost of food and living goes up due to increased export and import tax.

Too true, Panda.

In theory we could buy non EU food cheaper but lots of other things would be more expensive. In practice because world food prices have actually recently pushed EU food prices up, even that is unlikely to happen.

Our exports to Europe would become less competitive and nobody else would be rushing to take us into their club, cos they just don’t need us (and no-one likes people who rat on their mates).

I’m really off to get that life now – well at least I’m off to get lunch. Does that count?

:lol:

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Apologies to anyone I have disagreed with in the above rant. No offence towards any person real or fictional is intended (well perhaps a little to David Cameron).

And I’ll say it before anyone else – geez, I need to get a life.

I’m to get one now.

:roll:

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@sceptical guy wrote:

@mrs_teapot wrote:

@mrs_teapot wrote:

OK, I dont profess to be fully informed about the EU… in fact I doubt any of us know fully what the advantages are of being a member…. I have read though that it costs us between 14.5 and 17.5 billion each year to be a member although we do get back about 4 billion in subsidies.

I wonder what we want from the EU… is it as a trading partner? Because that was what we thought we were voting for in the last referendum… if so thats what Norway has…… and wait for it… they contribute nothing to the EU…. so they have what we all voted for in the last referendum for nothing.

If its more than trading we want… what is it? What is it that attracts us to it….. Im trying to think of the advantages? Anyone know?

Hmmm seems no one else knows either :?

Try access to the world’s single biggest market.

Try having a say in decision-making within that market, so that we don’t become a fax-democracy like Norway (and Norwegians are very angry about that one)

Try turning the anger at the political monstrosity which is the EU inot the UK demanding a genuine democracy there.

or give a realistic assessment of what a UK outside the EU might look like in the real world of trading blocs (US, China, EU etc), especially once this prolonged economic crisis is over?

I’m sure the brits will make a sensible decison when the time comes

Wish I had the same faith.

I don’t think most of the arguments are based on logic. Whatever the pro or anti Europe camps say, most people seem deep down to be distrustful of the French and/or Germans, and fall prey to the criticism the the EU of being huge and bureaucratic (like big surprise, look at the size of Europe).

I think we should be very careful of the seductive idea that we are not in a mess because of a global crisis or Cameron’s overblown austerity plans. We’re obviously in a mess because our European competitors are dragging both the UK and the USA down, aren’t we?

The world outside the EU would however be a very harsh place, and we aint one of the rough tough big playground bullies any more.

The EU is our biggest trading partner and we are more reliant on trade than the rest of the countries in the EU.

The USA has no sympathy for our trade issues and has consistently threatened trade wars with us for a whole range of issues, e.g. daring to support Caribbean farmers instead of buying US products. The EU defends our trade links outside the EU rather than hampers us.

We have to comply with EU law but it is mainly stuff that we sign up to or stuff we would have introduced ourselves. Myth – health and safety, and human rights are NOT an EU invention. We can get rid of EU law but then we have to legislate ourselves.

Other EU countries have both more restrictive and less restrictive labour laws than us. We don’t need to leave the EU to change things. In practice the EU makes us have a process (we use tribunals not full courts) to make sure people are treated fairly. The b*stards, how could those Europeans do that to us?

The USA are not and have very rarely been our friends, except when we contribute men and weapons to their war efforts. They even had a plan to go to war with us over Canada and trade issues before the Second World War. They have no time for our allies in India and Pakistan, didn’t support us over the Falklands, and have dragged their feet (for years at a time) whenever we have asked for their help – world wars, Bosnia etc. They think Cockney accents are cool and like some of our humour; other than that we are their old colonial masters and that still grates with them.

People talk about the Europeans, usually Poles, whom live in the UK. Around 5.5 million Britons live abroad. In Europe alone, there are three quarters of a million Britons in Spain, three hundred thousand in Eire, a quarter of a million in France and even over a hundred thousand in Germany, not mentioning the tens of thousands in other countries. Let’s see them all come home and see what it does to our social services and housing etc.

We are not having to contribute anything to the Eurozone economic crisis as a result of being an EU member. We have lent tiny amounts to the IMF to make it look as if we are not standing back completely. The more substantial sum we lent to Eire was only because our banks would have suffered – it was self interest.

Cameron stands back and tells the rest of Europe what to do while contributing nothing, and not helping them in any way. In Greece they are now handing out food in the streets and poor people have to pay to see a doctor or get life saving drugs, which they cannot afford. Amazingly Cameron telling other EU countries, including France and Germany, to pull themselves together like a stern school master really p*sses everybody off.

I think therefore that the original question about the EU leaving us is absolutely spot on.

We need the EU more than they need us. If we carry on rubbing them up the wrong way, they may well call our bluff and encourage us to leave.

We can then close down most of our medium sized businesses and prepare ourselves for another million unemployed – oh that is unless we can get another million Brits to leave the UK and go to the US or Australia. They couldn’t go anywhere else – the Europeans wouldn’t let them in.

:?

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Rain

Aaaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

:x

[momentaryloss]

Know what your saying Jen.

Best chips where I live are made by a Chinese bloke, who also makes great curry sauce.

[momentaryloss]

Thanks for the concern everyone.

It was only a virtual internet cough to get myself the last word.

No germs were spread in the production of the post.

Does that make me childish and petty – you bet it does!

:lol:

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@irish_lucy wrote:

are you kidding me, its one of the funniest things in chat.

The rooms and boards are all the same
i.e.:
I dont like you and i dont have to explain myself to you but heres me explaining myself to you anyway

Then the other person, I dont care what you think of me I dont have to answer to you – yet they do!!!!

and so on.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah OK. Fair enough.

It can be a giggle. Truth of the matter is I don’t have the attention span to keep up with all the insults and mud slinging.

I can never remember who is supposed to be dissing who!

:lol:

[momentaryloss]

cough

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