[ubermik]

@Bad Manners wrote:

@forumhostpb wrote:

In theory it would. However it then poses far more questions than it answers.

How would a total stranger decide to select that particular apartment, somehow ‘know’ that it was unlocked; again somehow ‘know’ that a young girl was left in there alone and unprotected; then somehow spirit the little girl away to somewhere so that literally nobody in the world ever sees her again;and so on.

The ‘stranger’ version seems to pose more unanswerable questions than the other ‘family’ version ….. which is possibly why the media have now turned on the sainted McCanns.

Sorry dude, but youre fair game tonight.

They could have been watching the family’s movements for days, and could have been watching their movements on that particular day. If they were doing that then they would hardly “know” all that by guesswork would they.
It’s hardly Rocket Science is it? Cant believe that you put this one forward.

LOL

WOW, such gifted and talented abductors eh? They just happened to pick the one family who WOULDNT be keeping an eye on their kids constantly whilst in a foreign country, how amazing is THAT then lol, was it a “guess” dya reckon or do the MCanns have “piss poor parent” tattooed on their foreheads?

Hardly likely that a team (coz it would HAVE to be a team) of abductors would just pick THIS family at random and then meticulously watch them to suss out a pattern in what would most likely be an irregular itenary anyway JUST on the offchance that they MIGHT leave their kids unnattended for a long period of time like hardly anyone ever does whilst on holiday

AND, lets suppose despite the total lack of any logic whatsoever that that WAS the case, after going to all that trouble I am sure they would have really taken all three kids to make it worth their while rather than just the one considering they did ALL that “planning” and surveillance eh?

[ubermik]

Like they once was how long ago exactly? Coz they have crawled along with the pace of a decayed corpse since long before I started posting on them and (with the odd arguement I’ve totally NOT caused lol) have been the liveliest I’ve ever seen them sometimes perhaps having as many as 10 posts in a week :o :o :o :o :o :lol:

Anyhoo, if its SOOOOOOOOO boring and assuming youre not a massochist you know where the off switch is dont ya lol

[ubermik]

Does too :P :P :P :lol:

[ubermik]

@r.O.T.T wrote:

in any circumstance
abortion is murder

Not in the civilised world its not, thats why they have different names lol, murder is murder and abortion is abortion and you’ll find that even the dictionary definitions dont agree with you either

Realistically you have the same choice with regards our way of life as do immigrants, accept its the majority democratic view and deal with it or find a country that has one you do agree with and for that very purpose our taxes are creating hundreds of such openings for people in afghanistan and Iraq lol :D

@~Pebbles~ wrote:

it is a very unpleasant business. And as for people who have multiple abortions and use it as some form of extreme contraception, they disgust me! :evil:

Well youre disgussing them too so fair is fair :lol:

[ubermik]

@~Pebbles~ wrote:

I agree that in certain cases abortion is acceptable eg, if the child is known to be seriously handicapped.

But, to allow abortion to take place at 24 weeks in my opinion is sick. The child is fully formed. Women often give birth prematurely at 24 weeks and the child survives. It shouldnt be allowed.

But this is where this topic becomes interesting and ties itself up in knots

On the one hand you have the illthoughtout stance that “its a womans body and its HER “right” and hers alone to decide what should happen to it” which is predictably wheeled out whenever a bloke, the would be father is wanted to be pushed out of the way and dismissed as irrelevant

But, for that ethos to be consistently applied then at 24 weeks and above its STILL the womans body and her “right” to decide whether or not something is allowed to gestate in it. But its also one of the areas where peoples views magically change once the topic is seemingly not connected to a bloke anymore and merely concerns the foetus and mother

To fully apply the “its a womans body and her decision alone” view then no matter what the reason, no matter how many times and no matter how late in the unwanted pregnancy she decides to abort it IS still her choice

But when men are against their “foetus” being aborted a common debacle to that is that he cant “force” a woman to bear and deliver a child SHE doesnt want, but that arguement quite conveniently gets hidden away and overlooked when the topic isnt to do with mens rights or lack thereof and is people trying to now show consideration for the foetus itself which is just as conveniently hidden away and overlooked when a man doesnt want his foetus aborted

Also when the total application of the “its her body and her choice” view is vocalised the REAL implications of it tend to get peoples backs up and cause tizzy fits en masse as it does mean that if a woman IS to have domain over her body, womb and contents AND if we are to abide by that then we also shouldnt then chastise, criticise or try to apply limitations to the exercising of that “right” otherwise it becomes a contradictive illogical one that lacks foundation or consistency which then usurps its validity when used as a counter to a fathers views and wishes if, quite conveniently the exact same requests, dissagreements and wants can be wheeled out for other moral reasons in a non gender biased part of the pregnancy

If the father of the foetus has no say in whether a baby is aborted for ANY reason and people are happy for that to be the way it is then someone even less important and integral has even less of a say in the matter and no moral highground to claim whatsoever as their right to hold a view is far far less than that of the father and his view is worthless and irrelevant meaning irrespective of the reason a woman wants to abort, whether its because of the sex, deformity, lack of interest or any other reason and irrespective of how far the pregnancy has progressed its still ONLY the womans decision and nobody elses

innit?

Theres nothing quite like consistency and integrity, and the modal views on this topic ARE nothing like consistency or integrity :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[ubermik]

@fastcars wrote:

If the Mcanns had a major role to play in her abduction or actually carried it out themselves then why encourage all this media attention? In their shoes I wouldnt exactly try and keep a low profile but I would certainly do my upmost to discourage attention rather than encourage it to the extent that they have.

The art of convincing lying 101

1) The most convincing lies have a proportion of truth because psychologically the truthfull parts make the person seem more convincing and thus more easily believed in contrast to a wholly ficticious tale

2) the bigger a lie and/or more heartreding/socially avoided topic its based around the less people will question or keep an open mind and the more the majority of social sheep will instantly switch into sympathy/empathy mode

3) it wouldnt be the first time a kids killers have soaked up all the media attention they could get hoping that being so public would “prove” they couldnt have anything to do with it by the same logic you just displayed “If the Mcanns had a major role to play in her abduction or actually carried it out themselves then why encourage all this media attention?”

4) when someones back is against the wall anything goes, and I am guessing these two are quite used to their above averagely comfy lifestyle so they have a lot to lose and therefore a lot to make it worth trying to seem convincing because of

5) people tend to try and assume normality, but lets suppose for a moment both of them are sociopaths, firstly they wouldnt have any guilt, remorse or negative feelings to any deep degree to be controlling which would seem to fit in with not only their professions but also the reason they have been criticised and suspected via the media, but to them they would feel “normal” (as to them it IS normal) and therefore as seemingly “distraught” as the next person would be.

So they could possibly be wanting to be seen in the limelight because it would add to the feeling of “getting away with it” or superiority as often goes hand in hand with sociopathic mentalities, but they would also be more focused on the positives rather than any negatives because of a) thinking they are convincing and are unlikely to get caught out and b) because sociopaths also often tend to have a feeling of entitlement and underecognition almost bordering on narcicism at times

So, rather than a whoppingly huge lie as most people would see it, if it was the case with these two and if they were sociopathic then it would just be “whats needed” to get away with it spiced with being the centre of attention for a while as they would feel they deserve as well as the visual longevity to them equating to the pretence of “caring” in a mind that cant feel, show or convincingly fake the more emotional displays others would show….. so they substitute dragging it out under the impression it will seem the same to onlookers whilst having the benefit of being a REALLY massive holiday off work too

So nah, I really dont think anything they have done is that surprising, its along the lines of when a killer voluntarily goes to the police station to offer their help even when not under suspicion which is also often the mark of a sociopathic/narcicistic mentality at work

[ubermik]

Who said I’m easy? :o :o :o :oops: :oops: :oops:

[ubermik]

@sweetass wrote:

trouble is the macanns are in a no win situation ……….if they keep actively encouraging media , they’re seen as bad and just wanting fame .. they don’t care for their child cos they’re just after their fifteen minutes.. yet they’re only trying to keep the fact that their child is missing alive.. if they sink into obscurity they’ll slated for not caring enough or giving up on her … whatever they do is wrong …………….so what can you say :?: :?:

I dont think many people would have criticised them for going back home, leaving the professionals to continue the search and concentrating on giving the other two kids as normal a life as they can so that would seem like a “win” whereas clinging to the limelight, making it less likely she will ever be found and getting up peoples noses as the parents monotone witterings become tedious would seem like a lose

So I see it as a win/lose situation, and theyre currently choosing loosing

[ubermik]

@forumhostpb wrote:

In theory it would. However it then poses far more questions than it answers.

How would a total stranger decide to select that particular apartment, somehow ‘know’ that it was unlocked; again somehow ‘know’ that a young girl was left in there alone and unprotected; then somehow spirit the little girl away to somewhere so that literally nobody in the world ever sees her again;and so on.

The ‘stranger’ version seems to pose more unanswerable questions than the other ‘family’ version ….. which is possibly why the media have now turned on the sainted McCanns.

Well to maintain some balance here, that would only be SUCH an outside possibility if the world was so transparently black and white that each person ONLY had ONE negative trait

So in that non-existant world a burglar would ONLY be a burglar, a paedo ONLY a paedo, a child slaver ONLY a child slaver

Back here on the actual planet earth tho, its not uncommon for people to have multiple negative traits, so what could simply have started as someone routinely checking doors to see if any holiday makers had left a door open in their rush to get holidaying could then have turned into a bonus when rather than just nicking a camera and some jewelry or identification they happened upon a some small children they could get either more money for or more derived pleasure from

Its only such an outside possibility if, unrealistically someone assumes in those kind of burglaries someone is magically drawn to an open door which obviously in nonsense. Either they find it after much trying of locked doors or the door in some cases wont have closed properly and will be obvious to see as being open and unlocked at which point chance kicks in with an instance like this and youre either lucky enough that none of the persons other negative traits concern kids and they JUST burgle the place as the kids sleep, they DO in which case the kids become the focus of their interest at the expense of the goods they could steal OR one of the kids wakes up and they have to do something about that to avoid discovery which is far more “real world” than the suppossition that the end result was the actual and planned initial one rather than just adlibbing and improvising as the situation evolved

[ubermik]

@fastcars wrote:

@forumhostpb wrote:

So …. back to the plot.

I see from yesterday’s UK press that the ‘beatified’ McCanns are now complaining bitterly about the media intrusion into their lives; about how they cannot even go for a simple walk together (with the expressionless Mrs McCann grasping a child’s toy for media effect) without being ‘hounded’ by reporters and cameras.

It even seems that the Portuguese press are now openly suggesting that Maddie died in the flat where she was abandoned by her parents; they allege that she was somehow poisoned and that the McCanns concealed this; they are saying that her body was later on removed in a car hired for the purpose and that it was concealed whilst the Police conducted their initial searches.

Of course and as you would expect, the McCanns are strongly denying this version of events and sticking to their story that a complete and utter total stranger forcibly broke into the flat (through an unlocked door) and abducted Maddie leaving absolutely no forensic trace whatsoever.

I can’t help wondering if the tide of public opinion is beginning to turn against the sainted McCanns.

Now mebbe im a bit fik…… but wouldnt it be far far easier for somebody to walk into a hotel room and pick a child out of its bed and walk away leaving “no forensic trace whatsoever” than it would to have accidentally poisoned the child.. which led to her death.. which then had to be hidden… and of course .. dispose of the body without raising anybodies suspitions…… AND leave “no forensic trace behind whatsoever”… :-k

But if the ONLY people there were the family their “forensic” traces no matter how numersous wouldnt be a sign of anything at all as its their hotel room, what I am guessing is missing is a fresh trace of any dna matter from anyone not already associated with the room

The MCanns themselves could have done whatever they wanted and it would still be expected forensic biomatter, whereas although not impossible anyone else entering the room would have been likely to have left a hair, skin flake, partial fingerprint or fiber of material from their clothes as those things are almost constantly falling off us as we go about our daily business

I would guess they are working along the line of assumption that they might have without nefarious intent drugged the kids to make sure they stayed asleep during which time either as a reaction to the drugs or as a normal consequence like vomitting maddy died at which point one of both of the Mcanns chose to dispose of the body and claim abduction rather than be held culpable for what could simply have been an accident but would still have been child manslaughter during a period of abandonment which cannot despite what many would prefer to think be ruled out as a possibility

Nor can far more haenous scenarious like Maddy at 3 now being old enough to start talking about being abused and having just started to do so and therefore needing to be silenced

or one of the parents drunkenly lashing out in anger when she wouldnt settle down and sleep so they could party and her dying as a result of a mere slap or shaking

As medical professionals even an accidental death at their own hands could decimate or even end their career but child abuse or illegal use of drugs could see them both being struck off too so they would have far more to lose than fred the factory worker and doris the cleaning lady would have

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