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I don’t see how Tommy Robinson’s conviction is an example of freedom of speech being curtailed.
I really don’t follow news about this guy, so I had to do what I condemn others for doing, which is wiki him.
A lot of information about his far-right political activities, and the worrying information that he changed his name to the leader of a group of Luton football hooligans (he’s an avid supporter of Luton, I guess).He’s also been involved in a lot of violence, much of it self-initiated
From what I gather he now renounces political violence against Muslims (sincerely or not, i don’t know) and he also says he’s against radical Islam, not Islam as such. Unlike QP ( I can’t be bothered to write QuintessentialParadox), who doesn’t see any difference. He was very friendly with Mo Ansar and his discussions about Islam were broadcast on tv, including a visit to the left-of-centre Quilliam Foundation. After being attacked in one prison, he was transferred to Winchester, where he seems to have been more friendly with Muslims. It sounds as though he had more respect for Islam after Winchester, but maybe I’m reading too much into his statements..
So – he’s a right-wing activist, subject to a lot of violence, now claiming to renounce violence. His arrest was over disrupting court proceedings by filming people, breaking a court order. He’s admitted that he broke the law with regard to this, and has been sentenced accordingly. The trial is having to be re-run at a high cost.
His jailing doesn’t seem to have anything to do with his views, but with his activism which led to the law being broken. I would be jailed for this if i did it. I was once on a jury where the judge specifically warned us that there were strict rule governing proceedings, and that he had just jailed someone who had posted about proceedings on Facebook. That kept us all mum.
So ‘Tommy R’ admits to braking the law and was jailed. That’s nothing to do with freedom of speech.
Although is has been covered before, the bigger picture and I would argue there is a much bigger picture, was one of the nails in the coffin that directly led to the Brexit vote and the current mistrust in the liberal establishment by the lower classes.
Majors regime in the early 90s and then the Blair regime, were well aware that male grooming gangs were sexually exploiting vulnerable young girls and it was covered up both at local and national level. For various reasons, but one of them because decades of demonzing the ‘underclass’ Alfie refers to has led to a situation where millions of people in that underclass are totally disregarded and ignored by the political establishment and used as scapegoats to disguise political ineptitude by that establishment. That underclass which I have argued previously, was deliberately created in the 80s under Thatcher (not in 2005 as Alfie suggests). Excess labor force etc, lowering inflation ect. Thatcherism and Reaganism in action.
That ‘thinking’ by the establishment led to the victims of the male grooming gangs being dismissed by the agencies that were meant to protect them. A completely separate issue from the ‘religion’ or ethnic background of the perpetrators.
The right wing media which dominates the political landscape in the UK bombards society with negative images of that underclass on an almost daily basis. “Feckless” dole scroungers, “baby machines” etc etc etc.
The likes of Tommy Robinson (fake name) who is cannon fodder for people far more powerful than him and who lurk in the background manipulating people like him, have a hidden agenda and while the likes of Tommy Robinson sow the seeds of discord, those with that hidden agenda go about their business unhindered. That is why we now live in a society where the NHS can be run down right in front of our noses and disabled and sick people can be smashed by an establishment hellbent on dismnatling the welfare state.
I don’t totally disagree with you, Gerry eg you reasons for the brexit vote make sense, but are one-sided.
In general, that’s not how I see the world of the last 30 years.
I think it’s a paranoid view which relies too much on everything being the product of a conspiracy by ‘the Establishment’, and economic policy as being a tool of nefrious design.
A right-wing version once pointed to the Elders of Zion as manipulating everything.
This left-wing version is popular, but wrong-headed.
I may say why later if still relevant because it’s so interesting – but a very busy few days coming up, paying respects to my parents etc.
firstly its not a small minority that have views incompatible with western life
Holding antiquated views is not an offence (unfortunately) but actions are. Chopping heads off on Westminster Bridge IS an action and an offence. I did specify actions not views.
secondly it’s not about punishing all muslims
If Islam or religion were banned, all muslims would be punished. All Christians are “punished” by being forbidden to take their Bible on holiday with them to Saudi Arabia.
Morgan, I would hate it if this country became an anti-Muslim version of Saudi Arabia in its religious policy. There is change brewing in Saudi, but its Wahabi interpretation of Islam is among the strictest and most repressive (the Sufi interpretation is the gentlest and most seductive).
Why should it be an offence to hold antiquated views?
What a man. I saw the video of the young man claiming up the balcony to rescue the child,while on holiday in Majorca. I am so paranoid about kids near balcony’s, i was on the second floor having kittens because the kids were running about, they only got on the balcony while an adult was there. I am so glad that young man got recognised for his bravery, and that he now has citizenship and a job. God bless him, a true hero.
I think it’s a paranoid view which relies too much on everything being the product of a conspiracy by ‘the Establishment’, and economic policy as being a tool of nefrious design.
There is nothing paranoid in the fact that the establishment at local and national level branded the victims of male grooming gangs in Northern Mill Towns as feckless and promiscous, that is on record. There is nothing paranoid about the fact it has been covered up at national level. There is nothing paranoid about cuts to public services and welfare that disproportionately target those communities and that those same communities have been ignored by the establishment for 35 years.
There is nothing paranoid about the fact that working class communities are battling to access public services and decent housing and jobs and are in direct competition with economic migrants in a large number of areas.
I would argue that the liberal middle class, the establishment, people just like you, keep calling everyone else “paranoid” while point blank refusing to achowledge or accept any responsibilty themselves. Hence why the grooming culture was allowed to continue for decades after it was first recognized in the late 80s early 90s.
Agreed Ge,very well sed.
Secondly my point was to that Dan thing. Love or loathe Tommy Robisnson and I loathe him, at least he has the kahonies to get out there and put his freedom on the line, unlike JC keyboard warriors who support his ideology and do zero diddly squat about it. If anyone is protecting freedom of speech here, it is me.
Strange you mentioning courage as I called you out face to face last year but you stayed here fouling yourself … just an old drunken wreck talking about Alfie all day. Pour yourself another drink Paul , theres a good lad. If you are that passionate about defending muslim rights , why arent you marching about it instead of drunk on a message board in the early hours again>
You can google away on “wikiepedia” to your hearts content
You can google away on your .gov.uk to your hearts content, I’m afraid you can’t convince me (and not just me) that I’m safe to take my Bible with me to Saudi Arabia. You can also not convince me that the Mutaween (religious police) will not apply Sharia law upon me.
As you have never been to the Middle East region, nor will you ever go to the Middle East region (unlike me) it will never affect you will it and so I wouldn’t worry about it so much and your original staement on the subject, is still a blatant lie.
Il wager you have never left the uk paul , you struggle to leave the house most days so lets stop this nonsense about you portraying yourself a well travelled scholar shall we. Most night you are to be found lurking in chatrooms till dawn- you fool no one and the continual misuse of “racism ” actually demeans true racism making you and people that say it look very silly and one dimensional
is your real name Ge ?
His real name is Paul, he’s a bisexual pervert on pats chat with an avatar formerly of himself in leather/ chains etc. If you ever have the misfortune to go on the site , they will confirm he has been banned for inappropriate sexual remarks and essentially known as a drunken old pervert unfit for purpose after his heart attack
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