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So basically Tap defines English the same way I did….born here of English parents in turn born to English parents….we all know about the Anglo Saxons and other influences
Drac….you never said its your culture that you define yourself as English….as usual you go on and on and on then throw another angle into it…Tap thinks you are probably more English than she first thought maybe because you came here age 5 and have lived here ever since…I still beg to differ…..I was born here….no one one call me English….my culture is a mixture of English and Asian…..an English person living in this country who starts to live an Asian life eating currys every night does not become Indian….get it?
The funniest thing about this exchange is….2 bloody foreigners arguing over if they are English or not lol …God save the Queen
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I know litteral nazis that question my ethnicity less than you people
Tapioca. Thanks, I do enjoy your posts because they take me outside my comfort zone and give me food for thought
Thanks, I shall take that as a compliment, flattery will get you everywhere
For all your talk of identity politics, drac, you do seem to be a captive of them – the politics of national identity.
You take a sentence out of its context and then you lose track of the overall argument,; you end up taking apart a sentence by quibbling, and you don’t touch the other person’s argument. This is not the Socratic method you often refer to in your defence.
Racism is the belief that your race is superior to others, and that a race which is coming into a country should be ejected and attacked, physically and verbally.
Agreed.
I’m not racist under that definition – quite the opposite. Clear?
That isn’t quite so clear to me. You said people of African decent think differently to white people. Can you explain what you meant if it wasn’t intended to be racist?
But that’s not racism under the definition you agreed to. Saying that people of different cultures think differently isn’t racist if it’s not supremacist or malicious. It’s just a statement – may be wrong, maybe right, but it’s not racist.
And I never said this anyway. I said that there were different cultures within britain and all had to be respected. I have seen tensions between people of Afro-Caribbean descent and people of African descent. Go to Newham if you want to see communities based on ethnic groupings; when i fisrt went there, the Indian community was a very distinct one; apparently it still is. There are different cultures there – I loved this, a real cosmopolitan flavour. There are tensions, but that’s natural when a community moves in. That’s how immigration works – people group together for safety, then gradually integrate. I think that’s wonderful. Racist?? Pah!
You can redefine terms so that theyy cease to make sense – eg Hitler as a centre-left politician
Socialism is left wing Hitler lead the National Socialist party What conclusion do you think i’m suppose to make from those two facts?
[/quote]Like BB, you take words literally.
In France there was once a deeply conservative political party called the Radical Socialist party. Its name indicated extreme leftists, but it was neither radical nor socialist. French Radicals had their hearts on the Left, their wallets on the Right, and they loved their wallets.If you don’t know why Hitler’s Nazis had socialist in their name, then look it up, and look it up in an attempt to understand rather than make points which depart from common sense.
That’s how immigration works – people group together for safety, then gradually integrate. I think that’s wonderful.
I don’t agree, immigrants may well integrate well into their own local communities, but this is not proportionally reflected throughout society, whether it be the legal system or politics, or any other major institution. I don’t consider that integration. The political class don’t live in poor and deprived areas, competing with unskilled immigrants for jobs and access to public services like housing and health.
I also know people in Spain who have lived there for 30 years, live in English/British enclaves and still don’t fluently speak the language and have few close Spanish friends. Yet it doesn’t appear to cause the same friction in Spain that it does here in the UK, maybe because those British are not in direct competition for Spanish jobs and scarce public resources. They start their businesses, open garages and their own bars and clubs etc.
I also don’t think Hitler and the National Socialist Workers Party can be described as socialist by any stretch of the imagination, for a myriad of reasons and although on the surface it might have appeared socialist. Full employment etc. I would describe him ideologically as a authoritarian fascist who utilized socialist polices to gain power as he was in direct competition with communists and other socialist political groups.
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But that’s not racism under the definition you agreed to. Saying that people of different cultures think differently isn’t racist if it’s not supremacist or malicious. It’s just a statement – may be wrong, maybe right, but it’s not racist.
I think its both supremacist and malicious to say that you can only think a certain way if you are once race, or only belong to a culture if you have the ‘right’ genetic history.
Go to Newham if you want to see communities based on ethnic groupings; when i fisrt went there, the Indian community was a very distinct one; apparently it still is. There are different cultures there – I loved this, a real cosmopolitan flavour. There are tensions, but that’s natural when a community moves in. That’s how immigration works – people group together for safety, then gradually integrate. I think that’s wonderful. Racist?? Pah!
I couldn’t disagree more, that isn’t how it should work at all.
But that’s not racism under the definition you agreed to. Saying that people of different cultures think differently isn’t racist if it’s not supremacist or malicious. It’s just a statement – may be wrong, maybe right, but it’s not racist.
I think its both supremacist and malicious to say that you can only think a certain way if you are once race, or only belong to a culture if you have the ‘right’ genetic history. [/q]
That’s unthinking nonsense. You’ve manipulated what I said. I said that there are many cultures in our society. I mentoned Welsh and Scots, northern and southern English. I didn’t say they all think differently, or in one way. I said there are different cultures.
Moslems, atheists and Christian are going to think very differently about God. Those different religions are different cultures. You can’t force them to think differently, and it’s not supremacist a to say they do think differently. look at the people in detail, and you’ll find a lot of overlap.
If I am a white supremacist, then you’re a monkey’s uncle.
Go to Newham if you want to see communities based on ethnic groupings; when i fisrt went there, the Indian community was a very distinct one; apparently it still is. There are different cultures there – I loved this, a real cosmopolitan flavour. There are tensions, but that’s natural when a community moves in. That’s how immigration works – people group together for safety, then gradually integrate. I think that’s wonderful. Racist?? Pah!
I couldn’t disagree more, that isn’t how it should work at all.
You can’t make things work in ways that people don’t want them to work.
people actually do gather in communities, and they do integrate – more or less.
They retain their own cultures, as a whole, but they accept the shared values of Britain. Those are tolerance of differences. We don’t kill people because they’re catholic or Muslim (not most of us).
Competition for scarce resources is another problem altogether, slowing down the process of integration.
Most Jews maintained their own culture and religion. Some integrated into a non-Jewish religious and cultural environment quite successfully. Others didn’t. Thre was intense resentment – a jew Bill in 1901 sought to end Jewish immigration fomr eastern Europe, where pogroms were forcing thousnads of jews to elave Russian territories. There were anti-semitic riots in Liverpool in the late 1940s. But in the end, the majority community accepted them.
We live in a multi-cultural society. That’s great. You’d have to be out for lunch to say that I’m supremacist for saying that.
That’s how immigration works – people group together for safety, then gradually integrate. I think that’s wonderful.
I don’t agree, immigrants may well integrate well into their own local communities, but this is not proportionally reflected throughout society, whether it be the legal system or politics, or any other major institution. I don’t consider that integration. The political class don’t live in poor and deprived areas, competing with unskilled immigrants for jobs and access to public services like housing and health. I also know people in Spain who have lived there for 30 years, live in English/British enclaves and still don’t fluently speak the language and have few close Spanish friends. Yet it doesn’t appear to cause the same friction in Spain that it does here in the UK, maybe because those British are not in direct competition for Spanish jobs and scarce public resources. They start their businesses, open garages and their own bars and clubs etc. I also don’t think Hitler and the National Socialist Workers Party can be described as socialist by any stretch of the imagination, for a myriad of reasons and although on the surface it might have appeared socialist. Full employment etc. I would describe him ideologically as a authoritarian fascist who utilized socialist polices to gain power as he was in direct competition with communists and other socialist political groups.
SHR, I’m not sure what game you’re playing at.
Whenever I’ve disagreed with you in the past, it’s unleashed a torrent of personal abuse which has made discussion impossible. This abuse is interspersed with a constant insistence that you cannot discuss with em at all. I can give a lot of quotes from you on this, but it’s not worth trawling through the archives.
So I leave your posts alone. It’s not worth all the bother.
You make points which can be worthy of discussion, such as this one, but what am I supposed to do?? If you don’t want to discuss things, that’s fine by me, but it’s best to operate on parallel lines. Yes? No???
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The funniest thing about this exchange is….2 bloody foreigners arguing over if they are English or not lol …God save the Queen
This started as an interesting post. Now it has got boring.
Thanks Kenty for lightening it.
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SHR, I’m not sure what game you’re playing at. Whenever I’ve disagreed with you in the past, it’s unleashed a torrent of personal abuse which has made discussion impossible. This abuse is interspersed with a constant insistence that you cannot discuss with em at all. I can give a lot of quotes from you on this, but it’s not worth trawling through the archives. So I leave your posts alone. It’s not worth all the bother. You make points which can be worthy of discussion, such as this one, but what am I supposed to do?? If you don’t want to discuss things, that’s fine by me, but it’s best to operate on parallel lines. Yes? No???
I was reading with interest what you stated openly about yourself on Blossoms thread about sociopaths. You state quite clearly you suffer from paranoia. I changed my approch with you and I thought I would give you another chance specifically because of that. I really don’t know why I bothered.
You don’t throw that racist, xenophobic label in my direction anymore do you, now you wrongly accuse BB of it, in nearly every post you type. You don’t appear to understand that people treat you appropriately, based on what you type. You are responsible for it, no one else and if you take it personal it just demonstrates that you can dish it out and not take it back in return.
It won’t stop me posting and giving my opinion, whether you are paranoid and you are, or not.
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