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Hey,
What is it about transport that interests you?
No problem, though we will need to work to build a much more democratic and accountable EU rather than the bureaucratic mess that exists at the moment.
I don’t see how that is possible when I can’t vote for anyone that has the power to introduce or repeal laws.
We are in the EU now without being in the Eurozone. A number of countries are in the EU without being in the Eurozone. no problem. The problem is in creating a Eurozone which works, and if they do and we don’t want to join it, then no problem.
All new applicants for EU membership are required to also join the Eurozone, it’s been like that for awhile now.
they were told that if they left then a pot of money would be coming their way.
Do you really think that most leave voters were listening to Boris Johnson? I think most of them listened to either Nigel Farrage, Daniel Hannan or the minority of Labour MPs in the Labour Leave campaign.
People will only rejoin, or refuse to leave, if they want to. Democracy, I thnk is the word. The Remaiers have to accept it; so should the brexiteers if events turn against them.
A lot of them don’t seem to have accepted it so far.
drac, we’re already at war with radical islam. It’s a difficult war, too. At home it involves keeping guard against terror and it involves police work rather than military activity. A religious war against the majority of Muslims would involve our society being torn apart and a lot of peaceful muslims lining up to fight with the radicals to defend their homes and their faith.
If they support the Islamists and Ijhadist then they have no place in our society either.
Why should you tolerate people who want to kill you for loving somebody? Simple, you don’t. Any muslim or any person who executes/kills someoen is already not tolerated.
It’s what Sharia law requires, and a majority of muslims support Sharia.
If you look at all the Judaic religions – Christian, Jewish, Muslim – they hate same-sex marriage and saem-sex relationships. The Bible is full of blood-curdling stuff about gays, and religious people can act in different way to punish gays, and in Uganda gays are threatened with death by Christians on a daily basis
The bible actually has contradicting messages on gay people. 2 Samuel seems to describe an openly gay relationship between David and Jonathan, which is only one example I could give. But this isn’t really relevent, Christian fundementalists are very rare in this country. My girlfriend’s family refused to speak to her for 6 years when they found out she was lesbian, they only speak to her now because they think she has been ‘cured’. I have just as much of a problem with them too.
Hate crimes are important, and I know we disagree on that. Surprises me after what you say about not tolerating people who want to kill you for loving someone (and quite a few religious people do), but that has to be for another time.
I just don’t see the purpose of making things that are already illegal, more illegal when targeted towards the minority group of the month. All laws should provide equal protection to everyone, and equal punishment for breaking the law.
Lots of things said on this thread are the type of comments that incite scaremongering. Quite the experts on the Quran. Personally ive never read it or got a friend to interpret it word for word for me and ive never read an online translation by some random. Because that would not be a true interpretation.
Complete nonsense, the English language is perfectly able to convey any concept. Just ask any ex-muslim atheist, they will confirm the translations are accurate.
Infact I have never read my religious bible, I couldn’t if I tried, because I cant read Punjabi. To be honest I hardly know whats written in it.
Then it isn’t your holy book.
Some of the comments I have heard in reference to the Quran. The ones relating to a muslim should not befriend a non muslim and if they do or have the motive is to eventually be their downfall in a nutshell. Well I have known and are friends with a couple of muslims and ive not been murdered yet. Maybe watch this space? And also the comment regarding them not celebrating others happiness and religious festivities. Again, the muslims I know have been to huge family celebrations of mine, celebrating dancing and eating and drinking our food, and have wished us happy Diwali. A muslim family moved into my mums road a few years ago, the little girl made my mum a happy Diwali card. Ive never given my muma Diwali card lol.
I have friends who are Muslim myself, all of them hold some beliefs that are not compatible with western values. None of them for instance, aprove of my relationship with my girlfriend. But this is anecdotal evidence at best, I have provided actual evidence for my case. I can tell from the way that you speak about muslims that you have never met an Islamist, you would have a very different view of Islam if you had.
The EU is doomed…
It is looking that way, but it’s their own fault.
We aren’t gonna leave ffs it’s shit on the people time
I think we will leave still, and it’s the EU who is trying to shit on the people. Junker has said that no EU member should have referendums from this point on as the people make bad choices.
The only point I’m making is about a conditional. If Berexit is a disaster, almost weverybopdy will want back. If it’s not, then there won’t be any problem in keeping out. What’s there to disagree about?
The disagreement is that your point is invalid. The terms of rejoining would not be the same as we have now, sepecifically adopting the Euro (If it still exists by then).
Well, drac, you’re misinterpreteting laicité in France, overdoing its problems withr egard to religion.
It was liberal on public symbols until 2005 when a ban on certain religious symbols was passed, aimed at Muslims. That ban wasn’t general, but aimed at public schools, specifically at the wearing of the hijab. It was only in two arrondissements in Marseille that a ban on using religious symbols in marriages was imposed, and that ban was condemned by the mayor of Marseille. There was a ban on the wearing of face-covering gear in 2010.
This is far from a general ban on relifgious symbols in public places,. Such a ban would be an affront to the freedom of religious worship whihc is such a crucial part of Western freedoms.
No, all religious symbols are banned in public. What you are talking about is the classification of the hijab / niqab / burka as a religious symbol, which it is (even though it originally came from greek traditions).
John Stuart Mill specifically stated that incitement to violence is not an exercise of free speech in On Liberty.
Then he is wrong, although I agree that it should be punished.
That’s why hate crimes are singled out as a crime, and rightly so.
I disagree strongly, I see no case for hate crimes to exist.
Your differentiation of muslims and islam is very personal.
I just defined what I meant by those terms so you would understand what I mean if I use them.
but remember that jihad is interpreted by most muslims in terms of peaceful conversion
The Quran says otherwise in no uncertain terms.
Mutual toleration is needed
Why should I tolerate someone that believes I should be executed for loving someone?
This country is lost to civilisation if it listens to nonsense about a religious war against muslims.
The Islamists want and are already engaging in a religious war, it’s already happening. Do you suggest that we just surrender to them?
drac,
48% voted to Remain.Last time that I checked, 48% is still less than 52%.
France is the 10th most powerful economy in the world (the UK is at the moment 9th).
Where did you get those numbers from? And didn’t you claim that France had overtaken us with no hope of return a few weeks ago?
If brexit turns into a disaster, then the whole country would want to get back into the EU. If all goes well, then none of us will have any problem in supporting a Brexit.
The idea that we would ever rejoin the EU is misguided. There is virtually no support for joining the Eurozone or Schengen, which we would have to. Not that there will be much of the EU left by the time that would happen.
In regards to soft Brexit, the only one that I would be willing to accept is a modification of the EFTA (Norway model), to keep the rebate in place, and maybe some things that would place restrictions on national sovereignty.
I’m sure your opinion doesnt matter to me.
