Boards Index General discussion Getting serious Should trangender people be regarded as women?

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  • #1108218

    This has been in the news a lot recently, as the government pursues the idea that a transgendered woman should be able to use the toilets, prisons etc of the sex of their choice; and as one transgendered woman raped two other women in prison recently.

    I’m not sure if this interests anyone in jc, but here goes.

    I knew and was friends with several transgendered people when I was in my early 20s. I knew nothing, occasionally thought I knew everything, but was always eagerly trying to understand and make sense of the world around me (something I am still trying to do).

    I became aware of the deep unhappiness of the trans – only one was a woman who identified as a man. They definitely felt that they had been born in the wrong body, and were often plunged into despair when greeted with rejection by women. One was wealthy enough to have the operation, which then involved a trip to Algeria and gruesome surgery which left the victim looking distinctly odd (though this may be my bias – I thought that Michael Jackson looked odd after all of his his surgery). One tried to commit suicide.

    My own view, for what it’s worth, is that if someone feels that they are a woman in a man’s body, or a man in a woman’s body, then they should have the right to identify as a woman or as a man, and that this recognition should be given socially. I think that they do have the right to uses toilets, changing rooms etc  etc according to their choice of gender.

    I know there are strong arguments for and against -Germaine Greer is a fierce opponent of the idea that transgendered men should be regarded as women.

    Are there any thoughts on this?? If not, I’ll let it rest.

    #1108219

    I became aware of the deep unhappiness of the trans – only one was a woman who identified as a man. They definitely felt that they had been born in the wrong body, and were often plunged into despair when greeted with rejection by women. One was wealthy enough to have the operation, which then involved a trip to Algeria and gruesome surgery which left the victim looking distinctly odd (though this may be my bias – I thought that Michael Jackson looked odd after all of his his surgery).

    It’s a mental illness and should be treated as such.

    One tried to commit suicide.

    From my limited understanding of the subject, suicide is most common after starting hormone therapy due to emotional instability, or post surgery as they realise that they are still not a woman depite all of the things they have done to try.

    My own view, for what it’s worth, is that if someone feels that they are a woman in a man’s body, or a man in a woman’s body, then they should have the right to identify as a woman or as a man, and that this recognition should be given socially. I think that they do have the right to uses toilets, changing rooms etc etc according to their choice of gender.

    I don’t really make a differentiation between sexes when interacting with people, I respond to people in according to their actions.

    Most countries don’t have laws dictating what bathroom you should use, so I don’t really understand what the problem is here. Even if such laws did exist, how would you ever be caught, if you were actually transgender then you would look like a woman and nobody would know differently.

    I know there are strong arguments for and against -Germaine Greer is a fierce opponent of the idea that transgendered men should be regarded as women.

    I don’t really think there are any arguments in favour of it. Legal recognition doesn’t do anything in real life, everything is exactly the same as if your passport said male.

    Are there any thoughts on this?? If not, I’ll let it rest.

    One thing that is often ignored in conversation about this subject is children.

    Giving hormone therapy to children delays puberty, often prevents it from ever happening. This often leads to serious medical issues such as infertility, and high cancer rates.This isn’t a decision that a child is able to properly make, and one that a parent or teacher should not make on their behalf.

    1 member liked this post.
    #1108224

    My brother’s wife..brother..had child borned with both parts. Yes years ago. He is now 39 years old. The parents made a choice he be a Male. Soon born operation performed.. for years and years needed hormone supplements. Poor guy. I felt his mannerism all in his youth should have made him female..acted, talked looked so forth more feminine nature. But he has been through so much..hardships too.

    As he still in my opinion can easily pass as a female still at this age..he has done manly things for years and treated as such. He is married.Adopted children as feared born like he was..go thru hardships and surgery, hormones he could not cope with that..

    They do stay it can be a gene pool mix with chromosomes on conception. So I do believe in my opinion this happens to people due to experience with one as stated above..

    For others what they wish to be..act..well it their personal right, choice, decision. I wish them well.  Whom am I too say..

     

     

     

    3 members liked this post.
    #1108227

    Should trangender people be regarded as women?

    Not if they’re transitioning to be a man…..

    Personally I think to be a woman you need a womb and 2 X chromosomes…

    #1108228

    Leaving theropy behind,growing up knowing you are in a wrong bodey,i recon you should wait at least till your bodey has grown.This is also a phisical problem,yes i think problem.No dr nor anyone wants this to happen,however it does.Fiddeling about with hormones in a growing body is not right.Fiddeling about in a bodey grown trust me is bad enough.I was put on the mureno coil in my 20s.Dosent matter how much i sympathize,you have to do it right.All i can say is what if you had terminal cancer,you would be begging to get to adulthood.Your problem is emotinal and physical.We all want things.I dont care if you was born a man and want to walk in to a girls toilet,i dont care if you were born a woman and want to walk in to a mans toilet.What i do care about is you walk in to a toilet and have no problem using it.You know when your a man,you know when you are a woman.

    2 members liked this post.
    #1108229

    No. Lindas example aside…you are either a bloke,or a gal.simple as that.

    XX=female…XY=male. no amount of cutting things off,sticking fake bits on,taking pills etc,changes your sex. You cannot change your chromosomes or your dna,

    #1108233

    On a lighter note had a laugh with these two on the bus this morning, couldnt tell if they were male or female! it didnt really matter they were simply two lovely people. They told me they go to greatie market to buy all the fake tatt hahaha as you can see from the pictures  lolll

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  Sophia.
    1 member liked this post.
    #1108237

    Drac and Jamie,

    my understanding is that peop0le are not allowed to change their hormones etc before full puberty, no matter how much they want to change.

    I may be wrong. I’m hardly an expert on this.

    #1108241

    I have massive sympathy for people who believe they are in the wrong body, it must be constantly traumatic , however I think extensive therapy should be taken before any drastic measures, only recently a man went thru the horrendous and very painful surgery to be female and it turned out he was just gay.  I do feel for people struggling but no amount of hormones or boob jobs can turn a man into a woman, good luck to them if they chose to follow that path but you still won’t be a real female and vice versa, far as toilets etc most countries in Europe have unisex toilets. What’s the problem ?

    #1108242

    I have to differ on the question of whether being trans-gendered is an illness or not, though I have no expert knowledge of the biology involved.

    I’ve tended to accept that gender is a social construction. You’re made into a woman, regardless of the genitalia.

    Trans-gendered women don’t have the full equipment yet – yet – but simply for them to identify as a woman is good enough as far as I’m concerned.

    we have a trans-gendered woman in a lectio group I attend every month, and she is lovely. Everyone there makes her feel accepted, natural, at home. So different from the social hostility which makes the trans feel isolated and non-humans.

     

    There is a series on ITV on Sunday nights called Butterfly, about the problems faced by a young working class lad at school who wants to be a girl, and the different reactions – from cruel to encouraging – which she meets. Episode 2 is tomorrow night. Worth watching.

     

    Linda sums it up for me – “For others what they wish to be..act..well it their personal right, choice, decision. I wish them well. Whom am I too say..”

     

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