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@pepsi wrote:
@pepsi wrote:
“Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior.”
The above is a quote …yes but that is exactly as I see the term racism.
In addition, briefly …
Views, practices and actions ( as above )
Discrimination.
Hatred or intolerance.It’s a very difficult one to define and understand Jen.
:?:
It is difficult to define and understand indeed Pepsi…I think how you see it is quite similar to my view.
I’d expand fiurther…any discrimination based on racial background, both positive and negative discrimination. I find positive discrimination just as abhorrent as negative.
@panda12 wrote:
@jen_jen wrote:
A couple of years ago a local business man made a generous offer to the school that his children go to. He offered a £10 WHSmith book voucher to go into the school bags of each child joining the school that year…there was one stipulation, he and his wife were to put the book vouchers into the bags themselves along with a personal note. The school agreed. Fortunately one of the teachers had a little niggle and checked the bags, only to find that vouchers were only put into the bags of the white children who didn’t have foreign-sounding names and that none of the non-white children had a voucher. They had to quickly go and buy vouchers for the bags of the excluded children so that there wasn’t an issue, which meant dipping into school funds for an unplanned expenditure. I said that I would have removed all the vouchers and returned them to him saying “thank you but it’s for all of the children or none of them” but he does such a lot of good work for the school that they didn’t want to upset him and lose future goodwill.
To me that is racism but there has been no verbal or physical abuse…?
He’s demonstrated his racism physically.
Physically to me can mean writing offensive slogans on a wall, not necessarily violence.
But he hasn’t abused anyone.
I consider it to be racism by exclusion, however a friend (playing devil’s advocate) argued that he hasn’t actually done anything against anyone, he has just done something for someone, something that he didn’t have to do so should be appreciated by those that did receive a voucher. I countered that this was discrimination based on race and was therefore racism…my friend agreed but said that her argument was based on what one of the teachers had said to her :shock:
Just to clarify, I’m not asking for a legal definition of racism, I’m asking what the word racism means to you personally and what makes you view someone as racist.
I’m trying to understand what is considered racism by society, in today’s culture, rather than legally as I seem to not have the same understanding as others that I hear/read about and I am genuinely confused.
So racism is just about verbal or physical abuse?
So as long as I don’t say bad words or beat someone up because of their race, I’m not a racist regardless of what my views are?A couple of years ago a local business man made a generous offer to the school that his children go to. He offered a £10 WHSmith book voucher to go into the school bags of each child joining the school that year…there was one stipulation, he and his wife were to put the book vouchers into the bags themselves along with a personal note. The school agreed. Fortunately one of the teachers had a little niggle and checked the bags, only to find that vouchers were only put into the bags of the white children who didn’t have foreign-sounding names and that none of the non-white children had a voucher. They had to quickly go and buy vouchers for the bags of the excluded children so that there wasn’t an issue, which meant dipping into school funds for an unplanned expenditure. I said that I would have removed all the vouchers and returned them to him saying “thank you but it’s for all of the children or none of them” but he does such a lot of good work for the school that they didn’t want to upset him and lose future goodwill.
To me that is racism but there has been no verbal or physical abuse…
Rusty, the confusion was mine already, your post simply highlighted it yet again for me so no apology necessary…and I have started another thread about racism :wink:
Rusty, I have to say that replies like yours make me ever more confused about what is racist and what is not, but I think that’s a whole different thread and I don’t want to sidetrack this one with it.
Mrs T, I might be wrong but I don’t think that Baroness Warsi is proposing the removal of all classroom assistants, I read it as the removal of classroom assistants that are brought in just to help children who cannot speak English. To a degree I think she’s right, as long as those classroom assistants are there to translate between the child, teacher and other pupils then the child is held back from being immersed in the language so their learning and integration is going to take longer. The child is out of their depth initially but they soon learn…I did when, at 10 years old, I found myself in a situation where the people I was staying with only spoke German and I only spoke English, I withdrew into my shell initially but within a few weeks we were happily chatting away in a hybrid of English and German and by the end of my stay I could hold a reasonable conversation in German…that was without any tuition. As an adult I have found myself in a remote part of Italy where no one spoke English and I didn’t speak Italian…again, by the end of the 2 weeks I was able to conduct a basic conversation in Italian. I am not exceptionally gifted in languages but immersion is an effective way of learning a language!
Why can’t you make additional classes compulsory? Again based on personal experience, as a child I missed out on 4 months of schooling, no home tutors back then, and I fell behind. I had extra tuition after school which was compulsory plus extra homework to help me catch up. Where we had children who were slower than the rest of class in something, e.g. arithmetic or spelling, there was the option for them to be taken out of a class for specialist tutoring. We also had a system where the brighter kids who finished exercises early were then assigned to work with a slower child and help them…it would probably be formalised and called a buddy system now! We used to be able to do these things then, why can’t we now?
I’ve only just read the article – I didn’t want to comment before I had the chance to – and from what I can see, Baroness Warsi hasn’t said it’s time for the minorities to join in Maypoles, harvest festivals, Christmas carols. What she has said is that she doesn’t see a contradiction between being a muslim and celebrating Christmas and she doesn’t see why ethnic minorities shouldn’t also, since white people celebrate Diwali and Eid. I think she makes a good point, in a multi-cultural environment, why shouldn’t we be inclusive? It’s not about forcing people to celebrate, it’s about saying it’s ok to celebrate.
As for RE at schools, personally I don’t think it goes far enough. Too much emphasis is placed on Christianity which is fine in a faith school where you know what to expect, but in a mixed school I personally believe that children should be taught about all faiths with no preferential treatment shown to any. If people knew more about the different faiths – from Wicca to Christianity and Judaeism to Islam and Sikh to Hinduism and all the others too numerous to mention – not only would they have a greater understanding of the cultural differences resulting from faith, they’d be able to see the strong parallels that run through all faiths and that there really isn’t very much difference when you get down to the bare bones. They’d also be more able to sort out what is genuinely associated with a faith and what is hysterical scare-mongering or extremist fundamentalism.
As for scrapping classroom assistants for those that help children that cannot speak English, as long as there is sufficient support to help the children learn English in extra-curricular tuition, then why not? I wouldn’t exclude them from the classroom though, the best way to learn a language is by immersion and if the parents don’t speak English at home then the classroom is the only place that the child can be immersed in the language. Yes it’s a burden on the taxpayer but it’s no different to providing extra-curricular tuition to children falling behind in reading, maths, sciences and so on.
@rusty trawler wrote:
It wasn’t so long ago when parents near where I live were being called racist because they had problems with their children having to be educated in predominantly Asian schools. I don’t think that race was the issue but more one of culture. The parents wanted their children to learn the things they need to succeed in British culture, which is primarily driven by western influences. Every parent wants the best for their kids.
I would call that racist. The assumption is that because it is a predominantly Asian school, the children wouldn’t learn the things they need to succeed in British culture…if that isn’t a racist assumption, what is? :?
6 weeks today I will be in a crumpled heap, happy cos I love the buzz of helping people find just the right pressie for their loved ones but knackered from not having had a day off since the end of November and glad it’s all over! A relaxing morning with our traditional Christmas breakfast, the customary exchange of cards and token gifts, then a stroll down to our local later in the afternoon for our Christmas feast, a toast to loved ones no longer with us (including a happy birthday to Myra).
Back to the topic of the Coke ad though…apparently we’re having a visit from the Coke Christmas Truck…funny how people of all ages are excited about it, even to the point of planning time off work…
Happy birthday!!
