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Oh Mr Nuttall of graphgate gets a mention here
”Many factors determine whether you’ll become addicted to a drug: your genetic makeup, social history, the drugs your friends take, how much money you make. But the chemical makeup of drugs guarantee that certain drugs are more addictive than others. The hardest ones to kick—heroin, for instance—actually train your brain to crave them. A team of researchers led by professor David Nutt of London’s Imperial College recently set out to determine which drugs were most harmful based on their addictive properties (the resulting article suggested that alcohol and tobacco are more harmful than cannabis and ecstasy, and led to Nutt getting sacked as the UK’s top drug adviser). ”
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Actually……….. apols in advance as this may be a long one ( bet you all wish I was back at work ) .
As I mentioned earlier, I have worked with addicts both of substance abuse and alcohol. I am not an expert, but worked with many different categories of patients over the years coz I’m old
In a way Mr ILOVEAGRAPH is in fact correct. Technically and medically speaking Heroin is not particularly harmful…wait wait….. here me out. Both Cocaine and Heroin are used often in a medical environment. The problem is when it isn’t used in a controlled way. It is fact that many Doctors, Surgeons, etc are addicted to opiates. The difference is they have access to them and know what dose, sterility, other conditions are needed and what to avoid. Not long ago a well loved anaesthetist I knew died his bath. No one was aware but he had become addicted to fentanyl, he had started self medicating due to chronic back pain which stopped him from working. He was a brilliant doctor, approachable, kind hearted, and with a lovely family, although no full explanation, heart attack was mentioned, but it was more than likely respiratory arrest, he slowed his heart rate too much and got in a hot bath which also reduces blood pressure, and he fell asleep and stopped breathing, this was someone who knew what he was doing !! The Dangers of heroin is when its taken by a kid, who gets told its not addictive, it IS THE MOST ADDICTIVE DRUG, unlike alcohol ! No access, unaffordable, spend any money on it not to feel so wretched, therefore not eating properly, no where to live, no decent hygiene, that’s what’s happened when you see the ” homeless druggy” on the street. They didn’t chose that way of life, they made a bad choice, somewhere on someone’s mantelpiece there is a picture of a fresh faced kid, butter wouldn’t melt, with their whole lives ahead of them, and 20 years later, if you stripped them and shaved their heads they would look like survivors from a concentration camp. Add on dirty clothes etc and you have your spat upon druggie. And there is hardly any help. Some go on to methadone, also known as liquid handcuffs, they have to go everyday for their dose. How can you get a job when you have to go to a chemist everyday? and on and on …. although you would be surprised how many people do take methadone and have done for years, teachers, solicitors, from all walks of life, once you’ve been on it a few years they let you have tablet form, before that there is a danger they will sell the tablets to get the real deal ,anyone who has access to patient records will confirm this .. and btw coming off Methadone is technically harder than heroin and is a very long slow process. With Heroin, every time they go with out they get terribly sick and their bodies take a battering, over and over it takes its toll.. With alcohol you can get shitfaced and not touch a drop again, till maybe the weekend
With Heroin you don’t get that chance. Yes I’m aware of Alcoholic’s having similar issues I do not dispute how dreadful that can be, but to me you have more of a chance to help yourself, basically you don’t feel you may die, LITERALLY DIE, if you don’t get a fix within hours, not unless you’ve been an alcoholic for years and are just topping up daily. Anyway, that’s why I feel Heroin is a far more dangerous drug, because of the havoc and despair it brings SO QUICKLY.Sorry
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Well we all knew that anyway… nobody disputed that
I’m glad we agree.
However claiming Heroin is safer is also very misleading
Claiming I claimed that is very misleading. I said no such thing. My wording was from the Lancet, “less harmful”. If you have a problem with articles in the Lancet, maybe you should send them a complaint. Your graph also has alcohol in the no1 position. Your graph agrees, when all the various factors have been taken into consideration alcohol is the the most harmful. Anything else can only be “less harmful”. In my way of thinking, if you’re willing to give a child the no1 on the list of harmful things, then surely no2 or no3 on the list can only be less harmless, and preferable.
I hate repeating myself. You did infer Heroin is less harmful.
”””If encouraging your 15 year old to have a “few” Vodkas is acceptable, then it must be equally acceptable to encourage them to have a “few” hits of something less harmful like Heroin”
They are your words, not those of The Lancet. Long term we know Alcohol is more harmful, and if you read the whole article it also explains why, as I did earlier, easier access, cheaper, not illegal, which all adds up to harming you long term. However if you are after a quicker death, try Heroin.
I am far from willing to give a child alcohol (and I resent the fact you are implying I would) , and try as you might to bait someone on here, nobody said pouring vodka down a child’s throat was acceptable. No One. So you can twist peoples comments all you like, to try and score a point or maybe punish them but its plain as day what your agenda is, I’m pretty sure, like myself most are bored of the tactical drum beating. Rahhh Rahhhh Rahhhh yes you are a clever little boy ….. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Over and out.
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Del Boy gets it wrong again …..
” No Way Pedro !!!!”
Um? what lot of people are you referring to Sceptical Guy?
Me for 1
Its gang mentality….. It goes on in the chatroom all the time. Mature adults getting in a frenzy with 1 or 2 whipping it all up, slinging vile accusations at people with no proof other than gossip, they get so mean and out of control they forget what the argument is even about…..
Well I have done a bit of research into Alfiegraphgate…. it is indeed from The Lancet, and to anyone on first glance it is pretty damning ( that alcohol ) is indeed the biggest threat to health. Well we all knew that anyway… nobody disputed that ! It is the most readily available, it isn’t illegal, its considerably cheaper etc etc ….. However claiming Heroin is safer is also very misleading…. maybe this graph also from The Lancet will explain a little more clearly, it isn’t hard to understand, it clearly shows that :
Drug specific mortality
Drug related mortality
Drug related damage
Dependence
are all considerably higher with Heroin, I would suggest it is no safer than alcohol, and quite frankly, as Scep has pointed out, surely we don’t need anyone to tell us not to encourage our children to take any substances whatsoever !! It’s bloody ludicrous that certain people think they have the where with all to advise people, when in fact, all they are doing is cheap point scoring, trying desperately to look clever, because of a tongue in cheek, flippant remark made by a poster saying she’d rather her child did what a lot of teenagers do and get shitfaced ( not encouraged to, just because that’s what teenagers do at least once ) than go and have sex with an ‘ old man’ and that is her prerogative !!
Every thread on here gets hi-jacked by a certain chatter / chatters, with the same MO , quoting quotes out of context, taking an opposing view not because they hold that opinion , just to make a discussion into a contest of words and manipulating the topic for the sheer pleasure of winding people up and banging their drum.
Personally I really am bored to death of it all, we seen/ heard it all before. Its Dull. Its Boring. Its nothing new.
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I dispute the fact you infer Heroin is safe
I dispute the fact that you have somehow inferred that. I’ve said no such thing.
here’s where you inferred it
””If encouraging your 15 year old to have a “few” Vodkas is acceptable, then it must be equally acceptable to encourage them to have a “few” hits of something less harmful like Heroin”
You haven’t answered who was encouraging under age people to drink vodka btw ?
I seriously cba with the whole Alfie system of quotation posting and google linking… it really is a fricking ball ache.
Fill ya boots.
Night
Search, “Graph of harmful drugs” in google. You will get more hits than you can care to go through, from a whole variety of sources. All the graphs will have alcohol on top or close to the top.
No one disputed that.
I dispute the fact you infer Heroin is safe…. as I said . self deluding to suggest drug abuse is somehow ‘not as bad’ as alcoholism….
With Heroin you don’t get that chance. Yes I’m aware of Alcoholic’s having similar issues I do not dispute how dreadful that can be, but to me you have more of a chance to help yourself, basically you don’t feel you may die, LITERALLY DIE, if you don’t get a fix within hours, not unless you’ve been an alcoholic for years and are just topping up daily. Anyway, that’s why I feel Heroin is a far more dangerous drug, because of the havoc and despair it brings SO QUICKLY.
